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By Any Other Name - That CRUSHING Scene (Subtle Progress)

If we limit it to TOS crewwomen, you can add Elizabeth Dehner, the faceless woman in CHARLIE X and the second of three of Redjac's victims in WOLF IN THE FOLD. So until Thompson came along, no dead reds, strictly blue.

If you go beyond the crew, there's Miramanee. Being married to Kirk probably doomed her from the get-go.
I forgot about Dehner, but I was also limiting to onscreen deaths seen up to the time of the original airing of "By Any Other Name", since I was describing how the scene affected me in 1968. Redjac's victims aren't seen being killed onscreen (Sybo might be the exception but the knife's already in her), and Miramanee is in Season 3. The fate of Faceless Woman in "Charlie X" is also unknown, but it was creepily effective during network run.
 
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We'll never know.

Well, actually, we do know.

Was the guy that was laughing at him returned as well?

Everyone aboard the Enterprise was restored. Remember how Rand was rematerialized right before Kirk on the bridge, even though Charlie had made her "go away"? The Antares crew was not saved, though.

We were told that the Enterprise crew was all saved. And before anyone can say, "Well, why should we believe the Thasians?", I have this to say.

In a universe in which time travel can undo anything, why should we believe anything particular happens, including the things we are shown as happening right before our eyes on-screen? Answer: in this case, the narrative provides us with the information in the form of dialog, it is never questioned in the story, or for that matter in any later episode, and so we should trust it. It's either that, or we can nitpick everything until nothing whatsoever is certain, and there's nothing left to discuss. Just get over everything else, already. :techman:
 
Well, actually, we do know.

Was the guy that was laughing at him returned as well?

Everyone aboard the Enterprise was restored. Remember how Rand was rematerialized right before Kirk on the bridge, even though Charlie had made her "go away"? The Antares crew was not saved, though.

We were told that the Enterprise crew was all saved. And before anyone can say, "Well, why should we believe the Thasians?", I have this to say.

In a universe in which time travel can undo anything, why should we believe anything particular happens, including the things we are shown as happening right before our eyes on-screen? Answer: in this case, the narrative provides us with the information in the form of dialog, it is never questioned in the story, or for that matter in any later episode, and so we should trust it. It's either that, or we can nitpick everything until nothing whatsoever is certain, and there's nothing left to discuss. Just get over everything else, already. :techman:

True, since old Spock went back in time, none of this ever happened. We're back to square one.
 
And how do we know any episode in which time travel occurred perfectly restored history anyway when they went back to the future? Maybe in "City" or TVH, things were just a little off.... :p
 
And how do we know any episode in which time travel occurred perfectly restored history anyway when they went back to the future? Maybe in "City" or TVH, things were just a little off.... :p

Spock
: Now, if my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles an hour, you're going to see some serious shit!
 
Indeed, that scene with Yeoman Julie Cobb (I forget her name) and the security guard portrayed by a black performer. Given that it is an American show and how race works in America....one might think that 'Oh, good grief....the black guy is going to get!"

However, we get a little surprise. Kirk is upset that the cute yeoman has been 'sacrificed' and the security guard is the one who lives.

For me, I've always disliked the idea (perpetuated mostly by fans) that Star Trek is progressive. Especially, since 'progress' means different things to different people depending on one's experiences,including race, gender, sexual orientation....etc. Albeit, 'progress' is usually measured and viewed within racial lines.

If Star Trek is 'progressive' it usually is when it's subtle, not in your face, such as: 'LOOK FOLKS, WE HAVE ONE BLACK PERSON IN A SEA OF WHITE PERFORMERS! WE ARE A PROGRESSIVE SHOW!" Or, "LOOK FOLKS! WE HAVE A BLACK CAPTAIN ON A SHIP THAT IS GOING TO BE DESTROYED! PROGRESS! YES, HE'S" - and it's usually a 'he' - "IS GOING TO DIE, BUT HE DIES WITH HONOR! PROGRESS!" (Note: This is thinking that has spilled into other spin-offs during the Berman era. Of course, when we have an episode like 'Code of Honor' with a cast of mainly black performers - despite whatever when on behind the scenes - we have fans who are majority 'white' cry "RACISM! RACISM!")

Thankfully, in the age of the internet (as well as people overall becoming more aware of racial disparities and roles, basically put in place by American society) we can have another look at many of these images from past and present film and television and re-evaluate them.

In regards to that scene from 'By Any Other Name,' I want to say that Warren Stevens' alien possibly was making a statement. Maybe, like many aliens in the original, saw Earth as a place that still needed to grow up. For example, the writers would have Archer from "Enterprise" say 'we' - 'we' meaning Earthers - 'have put aside our differences.' (Well, I didn't see that reflected in the crew, nor reflected when the blue Andorian Shran would call humans 'pinkskins' basically ignoring those with dark or 'chocolate' skins. Now, if they put Shran under a pointed hood that probably would have made more sense :lol:).

Interestingly, in the TNG episode 'Where the Silence Has Lease' the sacrifice to an alien 'testing humanity' IS an Enterprise crewmember....and that crewmember IS a black man. (It's almost as if the writers wanted to rectify their mistake in 'By Any Other Name':devil:).

Too, I posted many months ago how black people actually seem to do pretty well in red, given that 'red' is supposed to be a curse in the Star Trek franchise. We have the guard from 'By Any Other Name'...Uhura...as well as Sisko. The one unamed crewman from 'Where Silence Has Lease' is an anomaly.;)

Like the guard in 'By Any Other Name' that's a bit of subtle progress, i.e. it wasn't intended, and probably went over the head of the writers and directors.

Anywho, I'll probably add a bit more, but I found that little tidbit from this episode pretty powerful. Especially, when I - a black man working to get into film and television and someday have his own production company - look back at these images, especially given the current events in regards to 'race.'

(Quick Sidenote: I've seen some subtle 'progressive' scenes with Uhura, a black woman, being sexy and tough in 'Mirror, Mirror.' As well as Sulu, an Asian man, being tough and having a sex drive in the same episode).

Joel, I'd say that TOS was quite progressive for the time period it was made. Now if we are judging it by modern standards then I might agree with you.
 
I remember when I first saw the episode and wondering about Kirk's reaction to the yeoman's death.

At first, I felt bad for the guy in a way because I wondered if Kirk was secretly hoping the guy would die instead.

I never thought race played an issue---that was my impression as an 11-year old which is around how old I was when I saw that specific episode, I think.

What I did think was that Kirk saw the yeoman as a "fragile, little flower". Kinda like in a shoot out scene, where the guy gets spared but the lady gets killed.

Older movies/shows, I think tended to make the audience feel worse if the woman was victimized because as men, our ultimate job is to protect women and children. Or so I believe 1960s social standards implied. (For the record, I was born in the mid 70s.)

I think it's probably more of a gender thing.
 
In movies and TV women are still routinely killed off to motivate the male heroes to act. It's been a tired trope for ages.
 
Indeed, that scene with Yeoman Julie Cobb (I forget her name) and the security guard portrayed by a black performer. Given that it is an American show and how race works in America....one might think that 'Oh, good grief....the black guy is going to get!"

However, we get a little surprise. Kirk is upset that the cute yeoman has been 'sacrificed' and the security guard is the one who lives.

For me, I've always disliked the idea (perpetuated mostly by fans) that Star Trek is progressive. Especially, since 'progress' means different things to different people depending on one's experiences,including race, gender, sexual orientation....etc. Albeit, 'progress' is usually measured and viewed within racial lines.

Sounds like a no-win situation, doesn't it? If Rojan crushes one of the tetrahedrons, the show is wrong (or not "progressive" enough) for killing off the "wrong" character. If Rojan crushes the other instead, the show is still wrong.

Hollywood was, and is, largely run by white men. Lena Dunham (HBO's GIRLS) has said repeatedly in public that she wants to be known as a New York writer/producer/director and to keep Hollywood at a distance.

LINK: Lena Dunham and Nora Epron conversation video from The Criterion Collection, 2012

So, is this really a reflection on the STAR TREK franchise, or is this notion of "progressive" entertainment an indictment of Hollywood, then and now?

GASLAND and GASLAND 2 are widely regarded as two of the boldest, most progressive movies of the last several years. I don't have a running count, but I doubt you'll see anyone in either of those movies that is non-white.
 
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