Last Christmas Grading and Discussion Thread

[Kosh Naranek]

I liked Danny because he was kind of goofy. You expect someone good looking to be suave and he was not. It was kind of endearing.

I liked the Christmas special but some choices left me scratching my heard.

I do know that I love Capaldi and I am glad that Coleman is staying. I truly don't understand the hate that the Clara character gets.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ Just the vocal minority as usual.

 

[The Wormhole]

It isn't so much I hate Clara as it is I hate how she's written. Particularly her see-sawing on whether she wants to travel with the Doctor or not. Hopefully, she's made a permanent decision in Last Christmas to stay so we won't have to put up with any more "Just one last trip, on second thought I'll stay but leave next time, but you know maybe a few more adventures and then I'm done. Wait, changed my mind..." Making matters even worse, this is pretty much what we went through before Amy and Rory left, making it even more tedious than it already was.

 

[Mytran]

I didn't like it with Rory and Amy either, but at least it was less of a soap opera lie-fest. I honestly don't see the attraction Moffat has for this "part time companion" thing. Wasn't it previously established that The Doctor needs people with him to stop him going all doolally? And if he doesn't need people with him, why does he keep going back to a certain person/people?

This was slightly more justifiable with Smith, as he was many years into his incarnation, had been through literally lifetimes of adventures with the Ponds and they had a strong bond (although they were not the only people he ever adventured with, as evidenced in Dinosaurs On A Spaceship).

But with Capaldi, freshly regenerated and vulnerable, he is left alone for untold periods of time, only returning to Clara when loneliness and desperation get too much for him (having apparently lost touch with every other companion he used to know). Clara, who deigns to gift him a few hours of her life at a time so long as it does not interfere with her social life, career or other priorities. How is this "looking after" Capaldi, which Smith's beyond-the-grave phone call specifically asked her to do? No wonder Capaldi went peculiar for so long.

To date, Clara's finest moment has been her self-dessication and noble sacrifice for The Doctor's timeline, without expectation of return. I really hope that we get to see Clara's more positive attributes shine out next season, now she has decided to return to travelling with the Doctor full time.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Yeah, I really am hoping that part-time companion stops after Clara inevitably leaves the show.

 

[Ithekro]

Part-time companion is an excuse to have the Doctor show up on modern Earth all the time without forcing the TARDIS to be broken or have him exiled to one planet (again).

 

[Mytran]

The Doctor can show up on present day Earth for all sorts of plot related reasons (they did it all the time during Eccleston and Tennant's run) without requiring the companion to be home in time for tea every night.

 

[Captaindemotion]

The Doctor can show up on present day Earth for all sorts of plot related reasons (they did it all the time during Eccleston and Tennant's run) without requiring the companion to be home in time for tea every night.

That's what I was thinking too. They would occasionally drop Rose off 6 months late or whatever but it was a way of keeping down the budget whilst still showing that travelling with the Doctor was a full-time commitment.

 

[Mr Awe]

It isn't so much I hate Clara as it is I hate how she's written. Particularly her see-sawing on whether she wants to travel with the Doctor or not.

I love Clara. But, if I had one issue with her character, that would be it. It seems like she's finally choosen to embrace the magic of traveling with the Doctor. We'll see next series!

Mr Awe

 

[Richard Baker]

I like the way Clara thinks on her feet and improvises- instead of waiting to be bailed out of trouble. The whole Danny relationship thing anchored her character and as a couple they seemed to have no chemistry.
With Danny out of the picture and the Doctor/Clara relationship finally being truthful to each other I hope the writing improves and focuses more on the adventure.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ Needing to focus on the adventure seems to be a common theme of the criticism for the series 8, Danny, and his relationship with Clara.

Mr Awe

 

[The Wormhole]

Danny was used too often as a distraction from the action. Take for example Flatline, an otherwise solid story with plenty of action, peril and excitement to keep the audience entertained, and yet every so often the story's momentum comes to an abrupt halt when we get Danny interrupting and distracting Clara from trying to save the day.

 

[Mytran]

I think Flatline is a good example of the maximum amount of intrusion that Clara's personal life should have in a story. Ideally, of course.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Just rewatched Death in Heaven and noticed during the end stinger how the Doctor looks like he has fallen asleep on his chair when Santa knocks.
Very cleverly done. if you don't know the plot of Last Christmas you just assume he is a bit depressed and sunken in his thoughts.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I think Flatline is a good example of the maximum amount of intrusion that Clara's personal life should have in a story. Ideally, of course.

Agreed.

I liked Danny because he was kind of goofy. You expect someone good looking to be suave and he was not. It was kind of endearing.

True. I really liked that early scene with Danny in "Into the Dalek" when he was banging his head on the table after turning down Clara's invitation. (Took me a while to realize that that scene was really happening. At first, I thought we were just seeing Danny's subconscious reactions to his conversation with Clara.)

The Doctor can show up on present day Earth for all sorts of plot related reasons (they did it all the time during Eccleston and Tennant's run) without requiring the companion to be home in time for tea every night.

That's what I was thinking too. They would occasionally drop Rose off 6 months late or whatever but it was a way of keeping down the budget whilst still showing that travelling with the Doctor was a full-time commitment.

And, more importantly, the Doctor and Rose/Martha/Donna would leave together at the end of the episode.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Danny was endearing in his introduction and there were a couple of moments that really worked with him, but far too few over the course of his character arc. I liked his inclusion in "Last Christmas" because it gave him proper closure and also, for the first time, made Clara's relationship with him seem real and meaningful. But by and large he was just written poorly.

I also think the writers could've dispensed with the "Let's have Danny and the Doctor be at loggerheads" storyline. The Doctor was once a soldier in a war too. That was a huge missed opportunity for them to connect and smooth things over. I have no idea why they ignored that.

But Danny's biggest failing was his jealousy over Clara's life with the Doctor. Sure, she wasn't fair to him and lied her ass off, but he also could've been more supportive and less whiny, and maybe taken the opportunity to try to understand why exploring was so important to her. "Flatline" was a missed opportunity to kill both those birds with one stone (see her in action and hash it out with the Doctor). I've said it before. But in the end, they made up for it with "Last Christmas."

Speaking of, and on a side note, I just watched "Deep Breath" again for the first time since August, not too long after seeing "Last Christmas" again. In addition to appreciating the episode more (I saw things I missed on the first viewing), I also noticed that Vastra's Victorian-era house and Clara's Christmas dream-house with Danny are the same re-dressed set

 

[Doctorwhovian]

I think part of the problem was that he was a bit like Mickey, although less (initially) selfish....sort of the jealous boyfriend, clashing with an angry Doctor who gives him a nickname. Of course by Tennant they'd grown more into good friends.


Funny thing is that Moffat's previous boyfriend character Rory, was well-liked by Smith's Doctor, although the feeling was not always mutual.

 

[Ithekro]

The Doctor didn't seem to be into Amy (dispite her coming on to him very strongly). He felt like he owed her given that he left her with a promise and didn't keep it for almost a decade of her time due to the TARDIS missing a five minute jump by a decade or so. She and Rory were basically the closest he's had to having family in ages.

Clara on the other hand, I think the 11th Doctor was into a bit. He was certainly obsessed with her after lossing both Oswin and Victorian Clara. Also I think he liked Victorian Clara considering how easily she was able to surprise him more than once. He was extremely excited once he found modern Clara and a mystery to solve in her being "impossible". As the 12th Doctor, I'm not quite sure how he's feeling about her, but he still needs her in some ways.

 

[DWF]

Matt Smith's Doctor was obsessed with Clara because he couldn't explain or understand very existance. I don't think he was romantically attracted to her though.

 

[Ithekro]

He did seem to be fast on taking Victorian Clara as a companion (key and all). That "its smaller on the ouside" bit did catch him off guard, and it takes a lot to really surprise the Doctor anymore. Plus that version of Clara was very quick witted and could keep up with him (not only in the running from things bit, and figuring out his plan, but also she could out talk him. One reason Jenna was hired was that she could talk faster than Matt Smith, which is pretty fast)