Re-doing Voyager

[Anwar]

Not giving Harry a promotion, stuck the character in limbo and then why is he a main character? I why would I want to follow a character that goes no where?

No one cared that Spock and McCoy never got promoted in TOS, or that Geordi went from a Junior Lt to a Lt Commander entirely off-screen, or how Dax or Bashir or Worf never got promoted in DS9, etc.

As for Kim...well, like I said the cast was too big. If he'd been a secondary I doubt anyone would care much.

The real reason was because the writers disliked Garrett Wang for never taking his work seriously and never putting any effort in, they were going to kill him off before he won that "Most Handsome Guy" award so they wouldn't have to deal with him anymore.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Not giving Harry a promotion, stuck the character in limbo and then why is he a main character? I why would I want to follow a character that goes no where?

No one cared that Spock and McCoy never got promoted in TOS, or that Geordi went from a Junior Lt to a Lt Commander entirely off-screen, or how Dax or Bashir or Worf never got promoted in DS9, etc.

As for Kim...well, like I said the cast was too big. If he'd been a secondary I doubt anyone would care much.

The real reason was because the writers disliked Garrett Wang for never taking his work seriously and never putting any effort in, they were going to kill him off before he won that "Most Handsome Guy" award so they wouldn't have to deal with him anymore.

I see, so he got this close to being canned? That explains a few things.

 

[Anwar]

Same with Beltran. He complains about never getting much to do, but if you watch the show you'd see he was giving a lame performance right from Day One and botched any attempts he was given to do anything.

Writers won't write for someone who can't deliver.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Same with Beltran. He complains about never getting much to do, but if you watch the show you'd see he was giving a lame performance right from Day One and botched any attempts he was given to do anything.

Writers won't write for someone who can't deliver.

It's true that we rarely see him much and sometimes it's for very stupid episodes like The Fight... I hate these shows where sheer lunacy seems to be the main plot.

 

[fireproof78]

Ya I never understood why they didn't use Nicholas Locarno, since it would have nicely linked to tng, plus it would have made sense for a cadet who was kicked out to go and help the maquis. Probably a conflict with royalties or something.

Because they would have had to pay royalties to the creator of that character.

But please the whole native american thing seemed to be definitely bordering on offensive...

This again? I swear, some people act like all Chakotay did was say "how" and smoke peacepipes.

Well, why is that the only way it can be stereotypical? There are other ways of stereotyping, and that blanket way in which the writers crafted Chakotay indicates an insensitivity to the tribe from which Chakotay supposedly originated.

As for promotions, there is a difference between Voyager, which is supposed to be serialized and show character change, and TOS which was episodic. McCoy and Spock may have been doing their jobs, but they were never running around and trying to get a promotion either. VOY made a point of indicating that Kim was never going to get promoted, and topped if off with a formal reprimand ensuring such a future.

Now, the argument can be made, and I think it can be successfully made, that the limited crew on VOY means that promotion opportunities are rare, and that they are attempting to maintain the status quo so as not to upset the delicate balance of being stranded. In essence, career goals got put on hold until they get up. But, with different extras being killed, wouldn't something open up?

 

[T'Girl]

No one cared that Spock and McCoy never got promoted in TOS.

Spock was promoted, from Lt. Commander to Commander.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Ya I never understood why they didn't use Nicholas Locarno, since it would have nicely linked to tng, plus it would have made sense for a cadet who was kicked out to go and help the maquis. Probably a conflict with royalties or something.

Because they would have had to pay royalties to the creator of that character.

But please the whole native american thing seemed to be definitely bordering on offensive...

This again? I swear, some people act like all Chakotay did was say "how" and smoke peacepipes.

Well, why is that the only way it can be stereotypical? There are other ways of stereotyping, and that blanket way in which the writers crafted Chakotay indicates an insensitivity to the tribe from which Chakotay supposedly originated.

As for promotions, there is a difference between Voyager, which is supposed to be serialized and show character change, and TOS which was episodic. McCoy and Spock may have been doing their jobs, but they were never running around and trying to get a promotion either. VOY made a point of indicating that Kim was never going to get promoted, and topped if off with a formal reprimand ensuring such a future.

Now, the argument can be made, and I think it can be successfully made, that the limited crew on VOY means that promotion opportunities are rare, and that they are attempting to maintain the status quo so as not to upset the delicate balance of being stranded. In essence, career goals got put on hold until they get up. But, with different extras being killed, wouldn't something open up?

Yeah, the bitch didn't have any problem in not promoting him for years in spite of his excellent record but she sure is quick to ruin any hopes of promotion in the future with that formal reprimand of hers. And what kind of ship is it anyway where you get punished for getting a little action after years of abstinence? Even monasteries have more permissive policies...

 

[Dukhat]

Well, why is that the only way it can be stereotypical? There are other ways of stereotyping, and that blanket way in which the writers crafted Chakotay indicates an insensitivity to the tribe from which Chakotay supposedly originated.

Please. How is Chakotay's "stereotypical" Native American characterization any different from Scotty's stereotypical Scotsman, or McCoy's stereotypical Southerner? Or Chekov's stereotypical Russian? Or any other stereotypical character in Trek history?

Methinks this is much ado about little.

 

[Anwar]

Because they would have had to pay royalties to the creator of that character.

This again? I swear, some people act like all Chakotay did was say "how" and smoke peacepipes.

Well, why is that the only way it can be stereotypical? There are other ways of stereotyping, and that blanket way in which the writers crafted Chakotay indicates an insensitivity to the tribe from which Chakotay supposedly originated.

As for promotions, there is a difference between Voyager, which is supposed to be serialized and show character change, and TOS which was episodic. McCoy and Spock may have been doing their jobs, but they were never running around and trying to get a promotion either. VOY made a point of indicating that Kim was never going to get promoted, and topped if off with a formal reprimand ensuring such a future.

Now, the argument can be made, and I think it can be successfully made, that the limited crew on VOY means that promotion opportunities are rare, and that they are attempting to maintain the status quo so as not to upset the delicate balance of being stranded. In essence, career goals got put on hold until they get up. But, with different extras being killed, wouldn't something open up?

Yeah, the bitch didn't have any problem in not promoting him for years in spite of his excellent record but she sure is quick to ruin any hopes of promotion in the future with that formal reprimand of hers. And what kind of ship is it anyway where you get punished for getting a little action after years of abstinence? Even monasteries have more permissive policies...

Well, truth be told Harry screwed up more often than he succeeded. Taking everything into mind, he wasn't going to be promoted even if he wasn't stranded.

 

[MacLeod]

Not giving Harry a promotion, stuck the character in limbo and then why is he a main character? I why would I want to follow a character that goes no where?

No one cared that Spock and McCoy never got promoted in TOS, or that Geordi went from a Junior Lt to a Lt Commander entirely off-screen, or how Dax or Bashir or Worf never got promoted in DS9, etc.

As for Kim...well, like I said the cast was too big. If he'd been a secondary I doubt anyone would care much.

The real reason was because the writers disliked Garrett Wang for never taking his work seriously and never putting any effort in, they were going to kill him off before he won that "Most Handsome Guy" award so they wouldn't have to deal with him anymore.

Well as has already been pointed out Spock was promoted, you yourself point out LaForge gets promoted albeit off-screen (don't see why that couldn't apply to Kim). Worf was promoted to Lt. Cmdr. in Generations
and took a leave of abscence following the Ent-D destruction so that's what about 4-5 years as a Lt. Cmdr? Data was that for a decade+ ?

And Dax started off as a Lt. in DSN before getting a promotion to Lt. Cmdr.

 

[Lance]

It would be far easier to do a list of characters who didn't get visibly promoted in rank.

Picard. A captain from start to end.

Data stayed a Lt.Cmdr for the whole time.

Beverly Crusher (unless you count the Q future). She was a Commander in Season One, and still a Commander in Nemesis.

Deanna Troi. Like Data, am I right in thinking she stayed a Lt.Cmdr the whole series as well as movies?

O'Brien. Even as a non-com he should have levelled up (ironically he started as an Ensign, got some Leiutenant's pips, then got busted backwards to Petty Officer).

Odo. An unusual test case, admittedly.

Everybody on Voyager except Tuvok. Paris got busted down to Ensign then regained his old rank again, but that doesn't count surely (there's no career advancement). Contrary to opinion, Voyager didn't promote anybody except Tuvok, so Kim being an Ensign for seven years isn't really that much of an anomaly.

Everybody on Enterprise. Trip goes off to be chief engineer over on Columbia for a bit, but it doesn't correspond with him being levelled up in rank.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, why is that the only way it can be stereotypical? There are other ways of stereotyping, and that blanket way in which the writers crafted Chakotay indicates an insensitivity to the tribe from which Chakotay supposedly originated.

Please. How is Chakotay's "stereotypical" Native American characterization any different from Scotty's stereotypical Scotsman, or McCoy's stereotypical Southerner? Or Chekov's stereotypical Russian? Or any other stereotypical character in Trek history?

Methinks this is much ado about little.

Perhaps. But, it also breeds ignorance about a specific population and indicates a lack of concern on the part of the writing staff as to how the character is created.

There is nothing stereotypical about Chakotay because the blended in so many different tribes (as well as misinformation) in to the character backstory. That is a problem to me. YMMV

I guess it speaks to the overall consistency of the show.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Deanna Troi. Like Data, am I right in thinking she stayed a Lt.Cmdr the whole series as well as movies?

She became a Commander in season seven.

Scotty isn't a good comparison to the stereotypical portrayal of Chakotay. For it to be comparable, Scotty would have had to be constantly spotting the Loch Ness Monster.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Deanna Troi. Like Data, am I right in thinking she stayed a Lt.Cmdr the whole series as well as movies?

She became a Commander in season seven.

Scotty isn't a good comparison to the stereotypical portrayal of Chakotay. For it to be comparable, Scotty would have had to be constantly spotting the Loch Ness Monster.

Not to mention, rolling his r's.

 

[Lance]

Deanna Troi. Like Data, am I right in thinking she stayed a Lt.Cmdr the whole series as well as movies?

She became a Commander in season seven.

Cheers. I remember her doing her test, of course, but I couldn't remember off the top of my head if she got an actual rank upgrade out of it or not.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Deanna Troi. Like Data, am I right in thinking she stayed a Lt.Cmdr the whole series as well as movies?

She became a Commander in season seven.

Cheers. I remember her doing her test, of course, but I couldn't remember off the top of my head if she got an actual rank upgrade out of it or not.

Data doing all this great job for many years, saving lives and performing beyond the call of duty only to have Troi promoted over him... That seems... odd, to say the least.

 

[Dexter Remmick]

I would keep the Holodeck use to a bare minimum. I get they need the diversion, but I'm sure there are other ways that wouldn't be a large waste of resources.

Keep the seasons short with quality production value. 3-6 2hr episodes.

 

[Lynx]

Same with Beltran. He complains about never getting much to do, but if you watch the show you'd see he was giving a lame performance right from Day One and botched any attempts he was given to do anything.

Writers won't write for someone who can't deliver.

Wrong!

I think that Beltran was great in seasons 1,2 and 3. But it's hard to keep up the inspiration and interest when lame excuses for writers ruin the character and put him in the background, which was exactly what happened in the later seasons.

There are a lot of good Beltran performances in the early seasons.

Dukhat wrote:

Please. How is Chakotay's "stereotypical" Native American characterization any different from Scotty's stereotypical Scotsman, or McCoy's stereotypical Southerner? Or Chekov's stereotypical Russian? Or any other stereotypical character in Trek history?

I totally agree on that. Unfortunately, Trek is full with stereotypes in which Chekov is definitely the wost. Fortunately, he became better in the movies.

Trek's biggest problem is too much bad writing from people who don't have any clue about the world outside Hollywood.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I would keep the Holodeck use to a bare minimum. I get they need the diversion, but I'm sure there are other ways that wouldn't be a large waste of resources.

Keep the seasons short with quality production value. 3-6 2hr episodes.

I didn't think there were that many holodeck plots. I bet DS9 has more, with all the Vic fontaine episodes and all that, even though they call them holosuites on DS9.

 

[apollo1984]

She became a Commander in season seven.

Cheers. I remember her doing her test, of course, but I couldn't remember off the top of my head if she got an actual rank upgrade out of it or not.

Data doing all this great job for many years, saving lives and performing beyond the call of duty only to have Troi promoted over him... That seems... odd, to say the least.

It was silly really I don't know if there were trust issues or what, but don't forget in Nemesis (I know many out there want to but still) he was due to take the 1st officers position with Riker leaving (I assume that he would be getting a promotion to full commander with it as it is the enterprise so the 1st officers post would be a full commander and not lt commander)

Anyway back on topic, personally the changes I would like to have seen were:-

1) Have voyager a slightly older ship rather than state of the art maybe a excelsior refit or something like that, I mean how are they really going to be able to replace the bio-neural jel-packs.

2) Don't magically reset the ship week in week out, it should look more patched up, this would also suit Torres as she is not starfleet so it would make sense .

3) Harry Kim - either make him the relief ops officer forced to take the post up after the original one dies or make him slightly younger and have him as a Cadet on "work placement".

3) The Doctor - After seeing both Spock and Data type characters "tying to understand/becoming human" stories told already and again when 7 of 9 joins the crew it felt to me a bit overdone, I would have combined the Nelix character and the doctor (and I don't mean another Tuvix episode). He would basically be similar to Phlox on Enterprise.

4) Chakotay - Make him the moral center of the crew, to match off with Janeway's idealism and actually have him stand up to her even more than just the odd episode. He came across too much as Janeway's lapdog through the series.

5) Pay the royalties and actually use Nick Lacarno as they basically ended up with the same personalities.

I would keep the Holodeck use to a bare minimum. I get they need the diversion, but I'm sure there are other ways that wouldn't be a large waste of resources.

Keep the seasons short with quality production value. 3-6 2hr episodes.

Actually I think they said early on that the power to run the holodeck was different to the rest of ships power and was incompatible so they could not harness it anyway.