Terry Farrell and DS9 Season 7

[kkt]

I expected something of value and respect for a character who was around for 6 seasons.

Something like an entire episode about her husband and friends' mission dedicated to her memory so that she could get into Stovokor?

 

[STEPhon IT]

STEPHon IT is speculating ... and coming to incorrect conclusions. The producers were not committed to completely effacing Terry Farrell from the series. Even Farrell admits that her agent and the show's producers negotiated overnot just having footage of her in WYLB, but even filming new footage of Jadzia for that episode. There are several interviews in which Farrell discusses her relationship with the show. One of the best is from the Delta Quadrant podcast from 2013. I recommend you (and STEPHon IT) track it down.

No. I'm judging WHAT I SAW from the series finale. So I'll repeat: I don't think the death meant much to the horrible series finale. Worf didn't cast his vengeance on Dukat, nor did he have a flashback of Terry's moments. It was AS IF she never mattered on that show. The writers and producers literally SNUBBED her out of the show.

 

[kkt]

I don't see any need to take it as a snub, and certainly not by the writers. If the actor and producers can't reach agreement about pay, film doesn't get made. That's show biz. I don't think anyone who wasn't there can say if the unreasonable party to Farrell's pay negotiations was Farrell, the producers, or both. The writers did what they could to honor Jadzia without involving any new filming or unauthorized use of Farrell's image.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I do know for a fact Farrell was not held in high regard by many of her cast mates. I know Armin Shimerman has said some less than flattering things about her at conventions and I was at a convention where Marina Sirtis was a guest (she's close friends with Farrell) and she said that she was sure many of members of the DS9 cast were ready to help Terry pack her bags.

Now, where's the SPECULATION POLICE??? Could it be BAD THOUGHTS sense speculation when someone choose the OPPOSITE side of the coin? How many of the cast members publicly mentioned not holding her in HIGH REGARD?

 

[STEPhon IT]

I don't see any need to take it as a snub, and certainly not by the writers. If the actor and producers can't reach agreement about pay, film doesn't get made. That's show biz. I don't think anyone who wasn't there can say if the unreasonable party to Farrell's pay negotiations was Farrell, the producers, or both. The writers did what they could to honor Jadzia without involving any new filming or unauthorized use of Farrell's image.

True, but that was season 7.

Season 6 they could've nix the grand funeral ceremony for a character who's not a cast member and give Jadzia that treatment. Can I blame the producers and writers for that? At least?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I do know for a fact Farrell was not held in high regard by many of her cast mates. I know Armin Shimerman has said some less than flattering things about her at conventions and I was at a convention where Marina Sirtis was a guest (she's close friends with Farrell) and she said that she was sure many of members of the DS9 cast were ready to help Terry pack her bags.

Now, where's the SPECULATION POLICE??? Could it be BAD THOUGHTS sense speculation when someone choose the OPPOSITE side of the coin? How many of the cast members publicly mentioned not holding her in HIGH REGARD?

My apologies that I am not ubiquitous. Nevertheless, tomtonruben rightly identifies that his information comes from sources that are not easily found, in convention q&a's for which records are not present Anyone who reads it understands that there is a certain amount of hearsay, but nonetheless can assess it with other information he or she knows about the situation. What you wrote--that essentially the writers took their animosity toward Farrell out on the character of Jadzia, effacing her from the show--is presented as fact. Moreover, what you wrote is demonstrably false, especially in episodes like Penumbra, where Jadzia's image and words are brought back.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I think it was quite unlucky that her first and only time in DS9 's bajoran temple she happened to bump into Dukat during his first and only time in that temple. It seems like more than a coincidence...

 

[Tosk]

She wanted off the show. What were the writers supposed to do, have other characters constantly say stuff like, "Jadiza will be back later, she had to go to the head"? and we just conveniently never see her again?

That is weird, and untrue. Terry Farrell was ONLY contracted for 6 seasons. Her agent negotiated for a raise and the studio decided not to deal.

If she'd wanted to stay on the show, she'd have stayed on the show. Wanting more money and then leaving when you don't get it is all on her.

 

[Orphalesion]

ISTR reading that the producers felt simply that it would be an ideal opportunity to kill off a beloved character to illustrate the horrors of war, although if that were the case it would perhaps have made more sense for her to go out in battle rather than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do not agree, the horrors of war do not stop at the front line, after all. The real horror of war is that no one and nowhere is truly safe.
Falling in battle would have given her a death that could be rationalized as "glorious", just being extinguished while she was going about her daily life conveys the horror of war.

Though a death that would have demonstrated the horrors of war more would have been to have her be on a section of DS9 that's hit in cross fire during a battle. Vaporized in an instant along with a heap of other people who were just going about their lives.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

ISTR reading that the producers felt simply that it would be an ideal opportunity to kill off a beloved character to illustrate the horrors of war, although if that were the case it would perhaps have made more sense for her to go out in battle rather than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do not agree, the horrors of war do not stop at the front line, after all. The real horror of war is that no one and nowhere is truly safe.
Falling in battle would have given her a death that could be rationalized as "glorious", just being extinguished while she was going about her daily life conveys the horror of war.

Though a death that would have demonstrated the horrors of war more would have been to have her be on a section of DS9 that's hit in cross fire during a battle. Vaporized in an instant along with a heap of other people who were just going about their lives.

When Farrell did not renew, she gave the writers a gift: to show the horrors of war through the death of a main character. It was a gift that was not easily relinquished, especially since it played into the demonization of Dukat. I swear, Farrell has said that she came to a last minute provisional agreement with one producer, but that another felt that it was too late to change the writing. That would have been a thin excuse--late rewrites happen--but I could believe that the writers, including ISB, felt that it would strengthen the stories that they were trying to tell and would not want to change directions again.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

ISTR reading that the producers felt simply that it would be an ideal opportunity to kill off a beloved character to illustrate the horrors of war, although if that were the case it would perhaps have made more sense for her to go out in battle rather than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do not agree, the horrors of war do not stop at the front line, after all. The real horror of war is that no one and nowhere is truly safe.
Falling in battle would have given her a death that could be rationalized as "glorious", just being extinguished while she was going about her daily life conveys the horror of war.

Though a death that would have demonstrated the horrors of war more would have been to have her be on a section of DS9 that's hit in cross fire during a battle. Vaporized in an instant along with a heap of other people who were just going about their lives.

When Farrell did not renew, she gave the writers a gift: to show the horrors of war through the death of a main character. It was a gift that was not easily relinquished, especially since it played into the demonization of Dukat. I swear, Farrell has said that she came to a last minute provisional agreement with one producer, but that another felt that it was too late to change the writing. That would have been a thin excuse--late rewrites happen--but I could believe that the writers, including ISB, felt that it would strengthen the stories that they were trying to tell and would not want to change directions again.

Oddly enough, Jadzia's death is very similar to Tasha's. I mean they were both killed by powerful creatures (it wasn't really Dukat that killed Jadzia but the Pah Wraith inside of him) simply for being in their way.

 

[Iamnotspock]

ISTR reading that the producers felt simply that it would be an ideal opportunity to kill off a beloved character to illustrate the horrors of war, although if that were the case it would perhaps have made more sense for her to go out in battle rather than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do not agree, the horrors of war do not stop at the front line, after all. The real horror of war is that no one and nowhere is truly safe.
Falling in battle would have given her a death that could be rationalized as "glorious", just being extinguished while she was going about her daily life conveys the horror of war.

Though a death that would have demonstrated the horrors of war more would have been to have her be on a section of DS9 that's hit in cross fire during a battle. Vaporized in an instant along with a heap of other people who were just going about their lives.

That's really what I was getting at; a death that was a bit less... fantastical. Not necessarily a front line death, but something more directly related to a traditional battle, i.e. rooted in reality, rather than the supernatural death she received. What I liked about Tasha's death is that when Denise Crosby decided to leave, Roddenberry gave her a redshirt death; she was an officer with a dangerous job, and Armus didn't know she was a main character, end of story. Jadzia's death struck me as perhaps a missed opportunity to do something similar. Maybe they just wanted to be unpredictable, but I think it would have been fitting in this case.

 

[dub]

On the other hand, it's very much in line with how we see the Prophets and Pah Wraith battle in the earlier episode "The Reckoning," and it does help to set up Dukat as a combo madman/pawn of the Pah Wraith which we see fully realized in season 7, and the "supernatural" methods of the Pah Wraith we see in the final episodes. And what a memorable way to set the stage for the final season. Like it or not (and I know many do not), that was the direction the series was heading and Jadzia's death very much felt like a sign of things to come. To me, the writers did a good job of both shocking and scaring me as a viewer, as well as making Jadzia's death feel like part of the larger story even though her death wasn't originally planned as part of the story.

I still think it would have been awesome (since she had to be written out) if she instead died in "Change of Heart," but that's another discussion.

 

[STEPhon IT]

On the other hand, it's very much in line with how we see the Prophets and Pah Wraith battle in the earlier episode "The Reckoning," and it does help to set up Dukat as a combo madman/pawn of the Pah Wraith which we see fully realized in season 7, and the "supernatural" methods of the Pah Wraith we see in the final episodes. And what a memorable way to set the stage for the final season. Like it or not (and I know many do not), that was the direction the series was heading and Jadzia's death very much felt like a sign of things to come. To me, the writers did a good job of both shocking and scaring me as a viewer, as well as making Jadzia's death feel like part of the larger story even though her death wasn't originally planned as part of the story.

I still think it would have been awesome (since she had to be written out) if she instead died in "Change of Heart," but that's another discussion.

Which reminds me. Kai Winn had knowledge in "The Reckoning" how to kill a wormhole alien. She didn't think it would be useful to share this with the evil ones when she predictably bend over backwards to them. There aren't any science people or tech wizards in the DS9 universe who would love and cherish the evil prophets?

 

[Orphalesion]

On the other hand, it's very much in line with how we see the Prophets and Pah Wraith battle in the earlier episode "The Reckoning," and it does help to set up Dukat as a combo madman/pawn of the Pah Wraith which we see fully realized in season 7, and the "supernatural" methods of the Pah Wraith we see in the final episodes.

Yeah but that's it, Jadzia's death illustrates the horrors of madmen possessed by wormhole aliens, not the horrors of war.

I still think it would have been awesome (since she had to be written out) if she instead died in "Change of Heart," but that's another discussion.

That would have been quite an excellent opportunity from a story perspective. However, then you'd run into the danger of making Jadzia's deat all about Worf...

 

[JD5000]

I never really noticed that she's not all that great of an actress until this thread.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I never really noticed that she's not all that great of an actress until this thread.

This thread is quite an eye opener to me as well. I am starting to think that they should have gotten rid of her much earlier.

 

[Greg Cox]

As for the actresses themselves, I think Farrell kind of showed her true colors on that one, which was green for greed. Granted no acting job is a prison sentence, and if an actor or actress wants out, they should be allowed to go. Also, there is nothing wrong with asking for a raise if you are worth it OR if you think you might get it even if you aren't worth it. But, I am also not upset when actors/actresses who think too highly of themselves get the boot, when the only thing that stands in their way of completing the final season of their show is their own greed. I don't buy the "I don't want to be typecast excuse, because she was ALREADY typecast for having been on for 6 years, anyway.

It's kind of ironic that she was, in a sense, the most replaceable cast member, the one whose character had an in-built recasting gimmick. If it had been, say, Nana Visitor who hadn't wanted to continue for the final year it might have been a bigger blow. When your character is set up at the beginning to have the ability to reincarnate, which would be an intriguing idea to explore some day, it might not be a good idea to cause too much of a fuss.

Exactly. I mean, once you've set up the whole Trill thing, how do you not pull that trigger eventually? It's like Chekov's Symbiote. And with Farrell wanting to leave anyway? That's a gift from the storytelling gods.

Heck, I would've been tempted to kill off Jadzia well before then, just so you could finally play the Trill card and show us how the rest of the cast reacts to a new Dax. The whole idea of replacing Jadzia was practically built into the show's DNA from Day One.

I'm glad they got a chance to milk that idea before the show wrapped up.

(And, yes, I liked Ezri better, too.)

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

As for the actresses themselves, I think Farrell kind of showed her true colors on that one, which was green for greed. Granted no acting job is a prison sentence, and if an actor or actress wants out, they should be allowed to go. Also, there is nothing wrong with asking for a raise if you are worth it OR if you think you might get it even if you aren't worth it. But, I am also not upset when actors/actresses who think too highly of themselves get the boot, when the only thing that stands in their way of completing the final season of their show is their own greed. I don't buy the "I don't want to be typecast excuse, because she was ALREADY typecast for having been on for 6 years, anyway.

It's kind of ironic that she was, in a sense, the most replaceable cast member, the one whose character had an in-built recasting gimmick. If it had been, say, Nana Visitor who hadn't wanted to continue for the final year it might have been a bigger blow. When your character is set up at the beginning to have the ability to reincarnate, which would be an intriguing idea to explore some day, it might not be a good idea to cause too much of a fuss.

Exactly. I mean, once you've set up the whole Trill thing, how do you not pull that trigger eventually? It's like Chekov's Symbiote. And with Farrell wanting to leave anyway? That's a gift from the storytelling gods.

Heck, I would've been tempted to kill off Jadzia well before then, just so you could finally play the Trill card and show us how the rest of the cast reacts to a new Dax. The whole idea of replacing Jadzia was practically built into the show's DNA from Day One.

I'm glad they got a chance to milk that idea before the show wrapped up.

(And, yes, I liked Ezri better, too.)

I still think they should have changed Dax's gender. That would have been much more of a shock to the crew. Imagine Worf's embarrassment alone.

Priceless!

 

[Greg Cox]

It's kind of ironic that she was, in a sense, the most replaceable cast member, the one whose character had an in-built recasting gimmick. If it had been, say, Nana Visitor who hadn't wanted to continue for the final year it might have been a bigger blow. When your character is set up at the beginning to have the ability to reincarnate, which would be an intriguing idea to explore some day, it might not be a good idea to cause too much of a fuss.

Exactly. I mean, once you've set up the whole Trill thing, how do you not pull that trigger eventually? It's like Chekov's Symbiote. And with Farrell wanting to leave anyway? That's a gift from the storytelling gods.

Heck, I would've been tempted to kill off Jadzia well before then, just so you could finally play the Trill card and show us how the rest of the cast reacts to a new Dax. The whole idea of replacing Jadzia was practically built into the show's DNA from Day One.

I'm glad they got a chance to milk that idea before the show wrapped up.

(And, yes, I liked Ezri better, too.)

I still think they should have changed Dax's gender. That would have been much more of a shock to the crew. Imagine Worf's embarrassment alone.

Priceless!

That could have been fun, too. Although, as noted earlier, that would have made for a very male-heavy cast of regulars.