Was Seven a Virgin?

[borgboy]

Janeway and Seven were totally a couple when they had their fake personalities and memories in that holodeck world. Before that, I think it was implied pretty strongly that Seven was a virgin. I think once she hooked up with Chakotay there was subtext of it being her first time, but then there was that wonky Unimatrix world too.

I do think that Janeway would've come down pretty hard on anyone who she percieved as taking advantage of Seven. The Starfleet crew should be overall morally superior to the average 21st century person since they'd go thru all kinds of psych screening and had been raised in a utopian society, so presumably they'd have enough morals not to take advantage of Seven in her early years. Who knows what the Maquis would be capable of though.

 

[mos6507]

Mos, superficially on the outside maybe it looked like she had everything, but if you factor in that Nemeisis was aired wrong, Revulsion can't have been longer than a week after the Gift.

Is there really a lot of canonical material about liberated borgs? We know that at one time Picard got borgified and he managed to come back from the experience 100% physically intact (other than some PTSD). Should we assume he's a eunuch? And that was with the laser eye and everything. So just because a piece of your body had a borg appliance on it doesn't mean that section of your body was replaced by cybernetics. It could have just been an exoskeleton-like shell and some nerve-contacts.

I also don't think there's any one ratio of organic-to-borg. Each one seems to have its own mutant-like original design to it. Some may be more machine and some more organic. Luck of the draw.

(BTW, I think the main reason they technobabbled her liberation was to allow her to grow her hair out and not have to look all scarred and pasty-faced. I don't think they really intended to imply that she wasn't still functionally human inside, regardless of how the borg alcoves hijacked her digestive system. To believe otherwise is to make 24th-century medicine too advanced, almost Godlike.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

He saw inside Sevens sawed open skull in Timeless.

More than half her brain was metal.

We might have also seen her brain during surgery in Equinox II and Imperfection.

Anika had been Borg for 20 years.

Dependencies had been created.

Jean-Luc had been Borg for 2 days.

Bev said it was easy to pull stuff out, but it kept growing back. It was the hive-mind that was really throwing off her game. Seven's problems were not so easy to over come. Her biologies had created workarounds and secondary bypasses that no longer were interested in using her original factory specifications.

Yes. There have been threads in the TNG forum about Picard having no dick, or a new dick. No one is thinking up anything new today.

Although when he got turned back into a kid a few years later, was that his original dick reconstituted, or his new dick artificially regressed? And wouldn't this have broken the ice with Shinzon fantastically?

"You're my clone? What a coincidence! So is my dick."

 

[Lance]

I don't think it would be beyond 24th century science to reconstitute Picard's penis.

On the other hand, if you can recreate a penis, then you can bring Tasha Yar back to life.

Maybe recreating a penis was just beyond Doctor Bev's own abilities? Or she just needed more experience of the penis in question in order to know how to recreate it.

I suppose you could go off to a Starbase for an emergency penis reconstruction, like Picard went off to a Starbase that time to get his artificial heart looked at.

(I guess that's another thing. Picard was already in possession of an artifical heart. Having an artificial penis probably wouldn't phase him either.)

There doesn't seem to be any point in time during "Family" where Picard goes to get his penis looked at.

"Excuse me Robert, I haven't got time to fight with you today, I've got to go and get a new cock."

 

[Guy Gardener]

DS9 Shakaar.

KIRA: Furel, if you don't mind my asking, why haven't you?
FUREL: Had my arm replaced? Well, I thought about it. I even saw a Federation doctor about it. She said, no problem, Furel. You can have a new arm in less than a week. It'll have full range of motion and feel just like your own.

If it takes a week to grow a new arm (on the body like they already grow human ears on the backs of mice?), then it should only take a day or two to grow a penis( on the body like they already grow human ears on the backs of mice.). I assume the process would be that they file him down bare like a ken Doll, and then with a paint brush, brush on active human cells that will eventually slowly over the course of 2 days grow from one cell into an entire penis.

But what if it's not a very good penis?

Every fool knows that you need redundancies.

Did they grow a cluster of penises down there and pare away the weak and deformed until unnatural selection rewarded Picard with the best penis possible that his old man DNA could make, which isn't too dissimilar to the numbers game played with artificial insemination.

So?

After 4 hours it looks like a piece of rice, after a day Picard has a 5 year old's block and tackle, but then on the second day, there's the mast his ship is used to.

 

[tafkats]

We place an absurd amount of significance, as a culture, on whether somebody's Tab A has ever been inside somebody else's Slot B, or whether somebody's Slot B has ever had somebody's Tab A inside it. (No significance intended by the "A" and "B" designations; just playing off of the standard phrase.)

Presumably by the 24th century we'll have gotten over that.

Having access to the knowledge and pre-Borg experiences of thousands of drones, Seven was likely not naive nor what most people would consider inexperienced.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The collective would not have stored/kept that information.

It is irrelevant.

Which is why the Doctor had to go over the basics.

Did Seven act like she had access to Annorax's memories, or that Ferengi who wanted to buy Astrometrics who were both living inside of her? Or were they both in a firewalled off lockbox?

Below in Day of Honour is Tom wanting a revenge #### to piss off B'Elanna because he opened up to her emotionally and she kicked him in his emotional balls because she is cruel.

PARIS: Sorry about that.
SEVEN: About what?
PARIS: Well, the way he reacted to you.
SEVEN: He didn't injure me.
PARIS: Good.
SEVEN: There are many people on this ship who have similar feelings towards me.
PARIS: I'm afraid you're right. Does that bother you?
SEVEN: No.
PARIS: Well, I'm not one of those people. We all have a past. What matters is now.
SEVEN: I'm uncertain what you're trying to say.
PARIS: That if there's any way I can help you adjust to your life here on Voyager, please ask me.
SEVEN: I will remember your offer.

You can't see the predatory glint in his eye, but Tom was going to use Seven to attack B'Elanna.

Mr. Paris wouldn't do that unless that Borg was an emotionally adept adult with fully operational recreational zones, or he was a pig, or he was unclear as to how ####ed up she was body and soul.

 

[hux]

At the very least, Revulsion tells us that Seven understands the physical mechanics of sex (even if she doesn't understand the psychological/emotional) which means that if she didn't have anything useful down there (just a mess of wires, tubes and Borg glue) then her joke was extaordinarily dark

I don't see how she could have developed such a black sense of humour so early on

At that early stage, I think she was only ever capable of being ruthlessly sincere at all times. That means she had something workable down there and what's more, she was keen to see what it could do (she may have been tentative about it so choosing the least sexually threatening man on the ship also makes sense)

 

[Guy Gardener]

One of the most amusing things about season one of Weeds is after the seedy uncle shows his 11 year old nephew how to masturbate, was all the callbacks to that, where the kids mother kept questioning how ridiculous it is that the family goes through so many bananas in one week.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I have one question: When you're making the beast with two backs with Seven, how do you avoid cutting yourself on her multiple borg implants. I mean, those metallic things must have sharp edges... You know when Seven asks her partner, "Are you wearing protection? " What she means is a suit of armor...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

We place an absurd amount of significance, as a culture, on whether somebody's Tab A has ever been inside somebody else's Slot B, or whether somebody's Slot B has ever had somebody's Tab A inside it. (No significance intended by the "A" and "B" designations; just playing off of the standard phrase.)

Presumably by the 24th century we'll have gotten over that.

Having access to the knowledge and pre-Borg experiences of thousands of drones, Seven was likely not naive nor what most people would consider inexperienced.

We definitely place too much significance it in terms of legitimizing manhood, womanhood or adulthood, but with regards to the story it's relevant to the emotional development of her later romantic relationships whether it's something new to her or not.

 

[hux]

Presumably by the 24th century we'll have gotten over that.

Do you mean gossip (both Harry and the EMH demonstrate that gossip is still very much part of the culture)

As for speculating about the characters and their sexual preferences.....well we have to do that that because Star Trek never seems to have the courage to address that issue head on. For a show that gets (over) applauded for it's progressiveness, they've always bottled sexuality (in both senses of the word)

I have one question: When you're making the beast with two backs with Seven, how do you avoid cutting yourself on her multiple borg implants. I mean, those metallic things must have sharp edges... You know when Seven asks her partner, "Are you wearing protection? " What she means is a suit of armor...

I used to think Seven must have been an absolute mess underneath her catsuit (just covered in scars and burns and horrible deformities) but the doctor seems to be able to work miracles in that department so i doubt that now. I guess it's just a question of how many implants and bits of metal there are (and where)

None on her back it seems (according to the episode with Q junior at least...unless he prettified her for his own amusement)

 

[Guy Gardener]

I have one question: When you're making the beast with two backs with Seven, how do you avoid cutting yourself on her multiple borg implants. I mean, those metallic things must have sharp edges... You know when Seven asks her partner, "Are you wearing protection? " What she means is a suit of armor...

Who the hell still has missionary as their standard go-to?

Saw some movie made in the 80s, set in the 50s, where two 13 year old Italian American kids are arguing: "No! No! I am right! I am right! There are 52 different sexual positions in the world! I know! I know! My cousin has a deck of playing cards and they're all on there. 52! 52 different ways to give it to a lady!"

So you're suggesting after WWIII's atomic fires burned the libraries and wiped every hard drive in the world, that man kind and woman kind forgot the other 51 sexual positions?

 

[Taelon]

Would Seven have been able to conceive?

The Borg, for some reason, don't utilize biological reproduction in order to generate new Drones. (Just think if they did, they could double their population size every several years...)

Would the Borg remove reproductive organs as an inefficient drain on nutritional resources?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Borg don't age. Or age so slowly that their natural life spans are multiplied by several factors. Their growth as an empire, positive or negative is controlled absolutely and a direct reflection of the size of Borg Space. Only a savage child race would need to take more territory only because they can't control their own birthrate.

SEVEN: All of these elaborate rituals of deception. I didn't realise becoming human again would be such a challenge. Sexuality is particularly complex. As Borg we had no need for seduction, no time for single cell fertilisation. We saw a species we wanted and we assimilated it. Nevertheless, I am willing to explore my humanity. Take off your clothes.

The Borg do take babies. Put them in maturation chambers. At what point is a baby a baby and worth maturating into a drone? One degree less than that mark and bubs is nutrient paste for the other drones. 9 months pregnant? 2 months? 1/2 a week? How much do the Borg value life?

In Imperfection, we discovered that Seven's cortical node was a Borg fail-safe that would murder her if she experienced strong emotion. In Endgame she took it out to deepen her relationship with a block of wood.

Seven cannot have had sex that effected her emotions before Endgame, or it would have killed her, but she could have had all the disinterested mechanical emotionless bad sex she wanted and lived to tell the tale.

As far as the Janeway tryst in The Killing Game, it's possible that her characters "emotions" were being processed in a different node because they were not "real" emotions, or not even processed in her brain at all but off site in the holodeck's buffer, while the two French resistance fighters were expressing their intimacy.

(Back to fertility)

If a baby could grow inside that mess of twisted metal and missing parts, her love for the child, because of that bitchy cortical node, would kill Seven of Nine dead.

Seven of Nine could only "have" a child she didn't love without orphaning it.

Seven did have a baby with two other guys in Voy One.

She cried a lot when he died?

Surely that should have killed her too?

 

[USS Triumphant]

SEVEN: All of these elaborate rituals of deception. I didn't realise becoming human again would be such a challenge. Sexuality is particularly complex. As Borg we had no need for seduction, no time for single cell fertilisation. We saw a species we wanted and we assimilated it. Nevertheless, I am willing to explore my humanity. Take off your clothes.

Harry Kim:
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWZisnZ-RGE[/yt]

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I have one question: When you're making the beast with two backs with Seven, how do you avoid cutting yourself on her multiple borg implants. I mean, those metallic things must have sharp edges... You know when Seven asks her partner, "Are you wearing protection? " What she means is a suit of armor...

Who the hell still has missionary as their standard go-to?

Saw some movie made in the 80s, set in the 50s, where two 13 year old Italian American kids are arguing: "No! No! I am right! I am right! There are 52 different sexual positions in the world! I know! I know! My cousin has a deck of playing cards and they're all on there. 52! 52 different ways to give it to a lady!"

So you're suggesting after WWIII's atomic fires burned the libraries and wiped every hard drive in the world, that man kind and woman kind forgot the other 51 sexual positions?

I am no more suggesting that than your apparent lack of focus suggests that you are incurring the onset of Alzheimer's disease...

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Borg don't age. Or age so slowly that their natural life spans are multiplied by several factors. Their growth as an empire, positive or negative is controlled absolutely and a direct reflection of the size of Borg Space. Only a savage child race would need to take more territory only because they can't control their own birthrate.

SEVEN: All of these elaborate rituals of deception. I didn't realise becoming human again would be such a challenge. Sexuality is particularly complex. As Borg we had no need for seduction, no time for single cell fertilisation. We saw a species we wanted and we assimilated it. Nevertheless, I am willing to explore my humanity. Take off your clothes.

The Borg do take babies. Put them in maturation chambers. At what point is a baby a baby and worth maturating into a drone? One degree less than that mark and bubs is nutrient paste for the other drones. 9 months pregnant? 2 months? 1/2 a week? How much do the Borg value life?

In Imperfection, we discovered that Seven's cortical node was a Borg fail-safe that would murder her if she experienced strong emotion. In Endgame she took it out to deepen her relationship with a block of wood.

Seven cannot have had sex that effected her emotions before Endgame, or it would have killed her, but she could have had all the disinterested mechanical emotionless bad sex she wanted and lived to tell the tale.

As far as the Janeway tryst in The Killing Game, it's possible that her characters "emotions" were being processed in a different node because they were not "real" emotions, or not even processed in her brain at all but off site in the holodeck's buffer, while the two French resistance fighters were expressing their intimacy.

(Back to fertility)

If a baby could grow inside that mess of twisted metal and missing parts, her love for the child, because of that bitchy cortical node, would kill Seven of Nine dead.

Seven of Nine could only "have" a child she didn't love without orphaning it.

Seven did have a baby with two other guys in Voy One.

She cried a lot when he died?

Surely that should have killed her too?

The only thing we can conclude of all that is that Voyager-o-logy is not an exact science. In fact, I have it on good authority that it's not a science at all.

 

[hux]

SEVEN: All of these elaborate rituals of deception. I didn't realise becoming human again would be such a challenge. Sexuality is particularly complex. As Borg we had no need for seduction, no time for single cell fertilisation. We saw a species we wanted and we assimilated it. Nevertheless, I am willing to explore my humanity. Take off your clothes.

Once again Star Trek can't do casual sex. It either has to involve seduction and sensuality or it has to be within the confines of a monogamous, heterosexual relationship

Why can't people just fuck because they fancy it (like Seven originally wanted)

The Borg do take babies. Put them in maturation chambers. At what point is a baby a baby and worth maturating into a drone? One degree less than that mark and bubs is nutrient paste for the other drones. 9 months pregnant? 2 months? 1/2 a week? How much do the Borg value life?

Why would they waste resources on assimilating children at all (especially infants) how is that efficient. If we assume that a child Borg becomes an effective drone at 6 years of age (and that's being massively generous) they still have to wait 6 years for the thing to become useful. Nothing remotely efficient about that. Babies never made sense for the Borg

Seven cannot have had sex that effected her emotions before Endgame, or it would have killed her, but she could have had all the disinterested mechanical emotionless bad sex she wanted and lived to tell the tale.

You can still have sensual, erotic, profoundly satisfying sex with any gender you wish....without any emotional requirements.

Oh wait no, this is Trek......you can't

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

SEVEN: All of these elaborate rituals of deception. I didn't realise becoming human again would be such a challenge. Sexuality is particularly complex. As Borg we had no need for seduction, no time for single cell fertilisation. We saw a species we wanted and we assimilated it. Nevertheless, I am willing to explore my humanity. Take off your clothes.

Once again Star Trek can't do casual sex. It either has to involve seduction and sensuality or it has to be within the confines of a monogamous, heterosexual relationship

Why can't people just fuck because they fancy it (like Seven originally wanted)

The Borg do take babies. Put them in maturation chambers. At what point is a baby a baby and worth maturating into a drone? One degree less than that mark and bubs is nutrient paste for the other drones. 9 months pregnant? 2 months? 1/2 a week? How much do the Borg value life?

Why would they waste resources on assimilating children at all (especially infants) how is that efficient. If we assume that a child Borg becomes an effective drone at 6 years of age (and that's being massively generous) they still have to wait 6 years for the thing to become useful. Nothing remotely efficient about that. Babies never made sense for the Borg

Seven cannot have had sex that effected her emotions before Endgame, or it would have killed her, but she could have had all the disinterested mechanical emotionless bad sex she wanted and lived to tell the tale.

You can still have sensual, erotic, profoundly satisfying sex with any gender you wish....without any emotional requirements.

Oh wait no, this is Trek......you can't

Is it Trek specifically or just American TV in general?