He got to sell tickets.
ST Phase 2: MIND-SIFTER
- Thread starter Bixby
- Start date
He got to sell tickets.
Touche'.
I like to think that I straddle the line between the smart and dumb viewer. It's worked out pretty well so far.
Touche'.
I like to think that I straddle the line between the smart and dumb viewer. It's worked out pretty well so far.
Perfect: I straddle the line between the smart and dumb Producer, so we complement each other nicely.
Touche'.
I like to think that I straddle the line between the smart and dumb viewer. It's worked out pretty well so far.
Perfect: I straddle the line between the smart and dumb Producer, so we complement each other nicely.
Getting back on topic ...
Having just read Patty's script today, and not having read the story as published, I'd be interested to understand the reasoning for ditching the first script in favor of the one that was ultimately filmed and released.
If that would cause trouble, I'm happy to just let it go.
Touche'.
I like to think that I straddle the line between the smart and dumb viewer. It's worked out pretty well so far.
Perfect: I straddle the line between the smart and dumb Producer, so we complement each other nicely.
Getting back on topic ...
Having just read Patty's script today, and not having read the story as published, I'd be interested to understand the reasoning for ditching the first script in favor of the one that was ultimately filmed and released.
If that would cause trouble, I'm happy to just let it go.
Well, the official party-line explanations (and, indeed, they are the larger part of the explanation) are that we were going to have to reshoot a lot of stuff anyway, due to different actors' availability. So James took the opportunity to just get a new script altogether.
Patty's script hewed very closely to the original "Mind-Sifter" story as it appeared in an old fanzine. Patty knew Shirley Maiewski and wrote a script containing those elements of Shirley's story that Shirley was particularly fond of. The problem is that very few people ever saw the story in that fanzine. Most people know the story from the old "Star Trek: The New Voyages" book. Unfortunately, her story was changed a bit by the editors of that book. For better? For worse? I have some thoughts, but I'm not saying. Regardless, James felt the version from the book was "known and loved" by people, so he wanted the script to more reflect that version of Shirley's story. It seems to have been a choice between Shirley's original vision versus the known and loved version of Shirley's vision.
There are other reasons for the change, too. But I'll drop you a PM soon.
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I know you really don't believe you'd have an infinitesimal audience if you made the films exactly the way you wanted to. You might not get as many of a certain kind of fan, but that's not equivalent to next to no audience.
My point with the Jones quote was that even people who grind out dozens and dozens of the same type of product do not necessarily feel it necessary to play to the audience, even when there might be a financial reason to do so. In fact, I would argue that by the "tickets" standard he should have been pandering/playing to the audience.
I'm not saying anyone should do anything a particular way. I'm just saying I disagree with the broad brush of your premise in the bolded text quoted above.
P.S. Urbandefaut: Touché? Non. Beat Parry!
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I don't believe the portion of our audience that wants an episode with only the "good" virtues (assuming we could even agree on what those are) is not infinitesimally small. (My "appealing to an audience of one" comment was meant to imply "appealing to the harshest critic--solely to oneself as the creator of the artwork.")
The idea that we would want to throw in stuff in our episodes to be appealing to a wider audience doesn't seem like all that wacky of an idea. I suppose it's an indictment of sorts, but I don't think it's all that much of an indictment. We probably do stand guilty of some degree of pandering. If pandering a bit increases our fan base and therefore our donors' contributions, my wallet will be so much the happier. It's not like you think the number of people who like the "dumb" stuff in our episodes is infinitesimally small, do you?
I understand the late Chuck Jones' purity of his creative spark. He seems to have had the kind of Buddhistic calm that generally comes from having both substantial funding for a project/production, and a monthly paycheck.
I am waiting for the download version of Mind Sifter, which will enable me to watch it on a friend's 60" TV. So my comment does not pertain to the primary subject of this thread.
I think part of why To Serve All My Days and World Enough and Time were as good as they were is that modern group castings include a story or two about the background characters each year, or even each season. There were none in TOS, and these shows filled in what many might feel was a missing element. The primary focus of TOS was Kirk, Spock, and somewhat McCoy. You got a tiny little bit about Scotty. In modern shows (and I'm going to purposely go to a non-Trek example), e.g., Castle, we see shows that focus on the two other cops in the 4-some, although the primary focus is on Castle and Beckett. We get shows about family members, about the ME, about the captain. The focus is much broader than in TOS... or say, Bewitched. Samatha's mother might show up to make trouble between Samatha and the Darren of the year. The neighbor (recast 3x) might spot something. But these folks were NEVER the center of the story. Obviously more choices of characters give writers more material to work with. And as I viewer, I like having that deeper knowledge of the characters, rather than have them serve purely as background.
Clearly, To Serve All My Days and World Enough and Time also benefited greatly by having the characters played by actors who originated them, and could give them the depth I was hoping for.
That said, I enjoy a lot of fan films, and yes, even those that aren't anything near pro quality. But I do enjoy some of them MORE. I am hoping that I enjoy Mind-Sifter A LOT given the relative enthusiasm I am reading. And yes, I save and savor the ones I hear are particularly good. You don't open a great wine just because it's in your hands, you save it for a special day.
I think part of why To Serve All My Days and World Enough and Time were as good as they were is that modern group castings include a story or two about the background characters each year, or even each season. There were none in TOS, and these shows filled in what many might feel was a missing element. The primary focus of TOS was Kirk, Spock, and somewhat McCoy. You got a tiny little bit about Scotty. In modern shows (and I'm going to purposely go to a non-Trek example), e.g., Castle, we see shows that focus on the two other cops in the 4-some, although the primary focus is on Castle and Beckett. We get shows about family members, about the ME, about the captain. The focus is much broader than in TOS... or say, Bewitched. Samatha's mother might show up to make trouble between Samatha and the Darren of the year. The neighbor (recast 3x) might spot something. But these folks were NEVER the center of the story. Obviously more choices of characters give writers more material to work with. And as I viewer, I like having that deeper knowledge of the characters, rather than have them serve purely as background.
Clearly, To Serve All My Days and World Enough and Time also benefited greatly by having the characters played by actors who originated them, and could give them the depth I was hoping for.
That said, I enjoy a lot of fan films, and yes, even those that aren't anything near pro quality. But I do enjoy some of them MORE. I am hoping that I enjoy Mind-Sifter A LOT given the relative enthusiasm I am reading. And yes, I save and savor the ones I hear are particularly good. You don't open a great wine just because it's in your hands, you save it for a special day.
Why the frack would any of the companies behind the fan shows be using a Polar Lights/AMT/Revell/Bandai kit for what basically these days is a professionally shot TV show? Especially when they have to be doing anything like battles or showing the ship crashing (or as seen in that Phase II episode about the Doomsday Machine, going through the Guardian of Forever?) Methinks that you are just pissy about CGI like a lot of people, believing that it isn't 'pure' enough compared to model work.
These shows are shot on a tight budget, and they can't afford to be moving a model kit on a rig to be simulating the 1960's FX exactly. Also, they're trying to compete with the official shows/movies that are professionally made.
Well done cgi is time intensive. Time is a commodity like money that fan productions don't have a lot of. I quite like Doug Drexler's work on STC because while not truly exact he still manages to capture that TOS look and feel better than anyone else has, particularly CBS' TOS-R. I'd like to see him redo STC's opening credits because as is it looks to TNG like even though it's nice in its own right.
Really? Have you even watched the retro fx version of Mind-Sifter by Daren Doctherman? How can you look at this clip and say that it does not look like it came right out of the 60's?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJod836Y0rw&feature=youtu.be
Daren Dochterman's work and pitch to CBS on his Doomsday Machine re do was the basis for getting TOSR done in the first place. CBS just did not want to pay his fee and opted to go in house and thus did not get the 60's model look that only Daren can do. His Enterprise DOES look like a model that has been photographed and I would put it up against anyone including Doug. When Doug worked with me many years ago, it was he himself who had a free hand to do his job, it was he who wanted the ship to move like a fighter jet and not the way it actually did in TOS. I guess all the fan bitching has made him re think that! Lol.
Yes, at least at the end of the latest YouTube posting of the Modern VFX Version.
HOWEVER, the FX reel is NOT of the spaceship work by either Tobias or Darren, but of MY work doing pretty-much everything else, such as the Hospital, and Gateway.
There is also a treat; we get to see the entire Time Presentation I produced for the Guardian; including a brief jump through for an.... "Historical" interlude.
LOTS of Easter Eggs.
Thank you Pony Horton, I'm looking forward to the Easter eggs!
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Most of the people talking is this thread, probably have seen the original airing of TOS?
Some people, myself included, have not.
The first Star Trek I saw was TNG. The first time I saw TOS was late 90s.
For me, seeing the effects in TOS felt wrong somehow, no offence.
Later I started to appreciate TOS, what it represents.
Maybe that is the reason why I prefer the modern VFX in fan series
and the TOS remastered version.
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Most of the people talking is this thread, probably have seen the original airing of TOS?
Some people, myself included, have not.
The first Star Trek I saw was TNG. The first time I saw TOS was late 90s.
For me, seeing the effects in TOS felt wrong somehow, no offence.
Later I started to appreciate TOS, what it represents.
Maybe that is the reason why I prefer the modern VFX in fan series
and the TOS remastered version.
While I don't know of any side-by-side of the two versions, here are links to all versions released as of a few hours ago: (As far as I know, the download versions are not yet available to the general public):
You can view it right now, with with modern VFX special effects, with stereo sound, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6YZlx0DsLE (1:17:51), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFjikVnvypg (1:05:26), and subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLjApD7qFmc (1:05:26) OR
view it with 5.1 Surround Sound, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZMyIPFW7io (1:06:57) with subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4jQh2yJqbI (1:06:57)
You can also see it with 1960s-style special effects, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sLs1QxSBNM (1:17:36), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M06rX_9Ic00 (1:05:13) with subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5G42jHKpXg (1:05:13) with German subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKqdC-ka85Y (1:05:13)
For this episode with English subtitles (and more subtitles to come) see http://www.startrekphase2.de/en/4x09_mindsifter.php .
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Preferably with a big TV and a bag of Ruffles potato chips.
If you're a masochist you can just watch Barb Wire; it's even in color.