Deleted Scene from Insurrection
- Thread starter kciss
- Start date
If only they'd left another 90 minutes on the cutting room floor....
having a librarian in that scene doing the stereotypical "shsshh" thing when they get loud was kind of ridiculous
paper note pads were also seriously out of place
Capitalize on a show that's ratings were less than half of the show that this movie was based on?
Of course there was a lack of confidence. They wanted a movie for everyone. Not the relatively few people invested in DS9.
Epic or not, TNG was the ratings king that they wanted to capitalize on. Obviously they didn't succeed, but it's pretty easy to see where they were at least coming from. This wasn't a DS9 movie. It wasn't even a Star Trek movie. It was a Next Generation movie. And, objectively, the DS9 story had no place in it.
Quark wanted to set up a facility for people to come to the ring world and benefit from the ring's health providing radiation, which is what a lot of fans (at least here) argue was what should have happen instead of attempting to collect them.
The scene had everything to do with the movies. It revealed that the "secret" of the ring's benefits was already public knowledge. And it showed that Picard wasn't going to let anyone (other than the Baku) prosper from the rings.
Having it be Quark might not have been the best idea, but the scene in some form should have been included. It was important to the overall plot, and showed that the story wasn't quite over, even if the movie was.
Er, no it's not integral to the movie. In fact, it's the complete opposite of being integral. It showed that if some nobody like Quark knew the existence of this "fountain of youth" even while the Federation was trying to keep their plans for it secret, then it stands to reason that lots of other people would know of its existence as well, thereby nullifying the whole point of the film. As a matter of fact, the scene would make the audience think, "well, if Quark already knew about this, then why haven't a ton of other people already come to this planet while the Feds were fucking about trying to move the Bak'u to some other planet?"
Now that's how Insurrection should have been!
I'd have loved to see this movie instead of yet another "fountain of youth" What has there been, at least 10 of them, and this one was one of the worst.
I've seen that scene. Larry Nemecek brought it when he came as our guest in an Italian Star Trek convention.
The scene was supposed to be included among the other deleted scenes in the extra contents of the 2 DVDs special edition of the movie, however they coudn't identify who the two ladies with Quark were. The assistant director (I suppose Jerry Fleck) had died in the meantime and nobody knew who the actresses were. Since they couldn't pay them to be included in the DVDs they had to leave that scene out from the extra contents. This, at least, was what Mr. Nemecek told us. He had a DVD with this scene and another extra banned for legal reason from DS9 season 5 DVD boxset and we screened them both.
Maab
The scene was supposed to be included among the other deleted scenes in the extra contents of the 2 DVDs special edition of the movie, however they coudn't identify who the two ladies with Quark were. The assistant director (I suppose Jerry Fleck) had died in the meantime and nobody knew who the actresses were. Since they couldn't pay them to be included in the DVDs they had to leave that scene out from the extra contents. This, at least, was what Mr. Nemecek told us. He had a DVD with this scene and another extra banned for legal reason from DS9 season 5 DVD boxset and we screened them both.
Maab
I never said base it on DS9, but there were big events that had large consequences happening on that show - Insurrection just came off so small scale compared to the show, surely it should have been the other way around?
It's not often I find myself disagreeing with T'Girl on anything here, but I must say that on this one occasion I must (regretfully) disagree. 
While I don't necessarily think I'd have preferred to have seen The Dominion War transferred to the big screen, on a basic level I can't agree with the statement that being smaller was a good thing. For all Star Trek's noble philosophical aims, rule one of making a big damn movie is that you don't "do" small-scale. And I think it is a big flaw of Insurrection, that, during the writing process, Berman and Piller actively pushed against the instinct to do an action packed follow-up in the vein of First Contact, and instead pitched a movie which was, in many ways, that movie's complete antithesis. It felt too small scale.
Insurrection is Star Trek to it's core, it's especially 'The Next Generation' to it's core... but it just isn't 'big' enough to be a movie script. And when you gotta sell tickets to survive, that's bad business sense.
While I don't necessarily think I'd have preferred to have seen The Dominion War transferred to the big screen, on a basic level I can't agree with the statement that being smaller was a good thing. For all Star Trek's noble philosophical aims, rule one of making a big damn movie is that you don't "do" small-scale. And I think it is a big flaw of Insurrection, that, during the writing process, Berman and Piller actively pushed against the instinct to do an action packed follow-up in the vein of First Contact, and instead pitched a movie which was, in many ways, that movie's complete antithesis. It felt too small scale.
Insurrection is Star Trek to it's core, it's especially 'The Next Generation' to it's core... but it just isn't 'big' enough to be a movie script. And when you gotta sell tickets to survive, that's bad business sense.
This thread has touched on a topic that I've thought about for awhile now.
TPTB should have waited until DS9's run was complete before releasing the ninth film. DS9's ongoing war saga really complicated INS. They didn't quite know how to incorprate Worf again so they just threw him in and literally cut off the on-screen explanation. They flirted with inserting Quark but it was unworkable. In the end, they basically wound up removing the Ent-E from all events in the AQ and just isolating it in a remote region where nothing from the outside would affect the story.
If they would have waited another year or two, it's not as if the general audience would have forgotten about Picard's TNG crew. FC was a big hit and people would still have lined up in late '99 or 2000 to see the next TNG film. TPTB really lacked confidence in the franchise. They should have waited until DS9 was complete to lease the ninth film (which would have been nothing at all like INS), allowing them time to form a comprehensive plan for a couple films with the full knowledge of how DS9's story ended.
TPTB should have waited until DS9's run was complete before releasing the ninth film. DS9's ongoing war saga really complicated INS. They didn't quite know how to incorprate Worf again so they just threw him in and literally cut off the on-screen explanation. They flirted with inserting Quark but it was unworkable. In the end, they basically wound up removing the Ent-E from all events in the AQ and just isolating it in a remote region where nothing from the outside would affect the story.
If they would have waited another year or two, it's not as if the general audience would have forgotten about Picard's TNG crew. FC was a big hit and people would still have lined up in late '99 or 2000 to see the next TNG film. TPTB really lacked confidence in the franchise. They should have waited until DS9 was complete to lease the ninth film (which would have been nothing at all like INS), allowing them time to form a comprehensive plan for a couple films with the full knowledge of how DS9's story ended.
It's not often I find myself disagreeing with T'Girl on anything here, but I must say that on this one occasion I must (regretfully) disagree.
While I don't necessarily think I'd have preferred to have seen The Dominion War transferred to the big screen, on a basic level I can't agree with the statement that being smaller was a good thing. For all Star Trek's noble philosophical aims, rule one of making a big damn movie is that you don't "do" small-scale. And I think it is a big flaw of Insurrection, that, during the writing process, Berman and Piller actively pushed against the instinct to do an action packed follow-up in the vein of First Contact, and instead pitched a movie which was, in many ways, that movie's complete antithesis. It felt too small scale.
Insurrection is Star Trek to it's core, it's especially 'The Next Generation' to it's core... but it just isn't 'big' enough to be a movie script. And when you gotta sell tickets to survive, that's bad business sense.
So you don't applaud the creators for avoiding the easy way out of taking what they did in the previous money and simply making it bigger with new window dressings?
The fact that they looked at the movie and said "let's make the next one different, let's shift the tone right around" is a great one in the franchise market. They may have failed in the execution of that, but I'm happy to see they tried.
It's not often I find myself disagreeing with T'Girl on anything here, but I must say that on this one occasion I must (regretfully) disagree.
While I don't necessarily think I'd have preferred to have seen The Dominion War transferred to the big screen, on a basic level I can't agree with the statement that being smaller was a good thing. For all Star Trek's noble philosophical aims, rule one of making a big damn movie is that you don't "do" small-scale. And I think it is a big flaw of Insurrection, that, during the writing process, Berman and Piller actively pushed against the instinct to do an action packed follow-up in the vein of First Contact, and instead pitched a movie which was, in many ways, that movie's complete antithesis. It felt too small scale.
Insurrection is Star Trek to it's core, it's especially 'The Next Generation' to it's core... but it just isn't 'big' enough to be a movie script. And when you gotta sell tickets to survive, that's bad business sense.
So you don't applaud the creators for avoiding the easy way out of taking what they did in the previous money and simply making it bigger with new window dressings?
The fact that they looked at the movie and said "let's make the next one different, let's shift the tone right around" is a great one in the franchise market. They may have failed in the execution of that, but I'm happy to see they tried.
Oh, I applaud them, and I never said I wasn't 'happy' about it.
But in the sterile enviroment that is Hollywood, it wasn't exactly a savvy business decision on their part.
It's not often I find myself disagreeing with T'Girl on anything here, but I must say that on this one occasion I must (regretfully) disagree.
While I don't necessarily think I'd have preferred to have seen The Dominion War transferred to the big screen, on a basic level I can't agree with the statement that being smaller was a good thing. For all Star Trek's noble philosophical aims, rule one of making a big damn movie is that you don't "do" small-scale. And I think it is a big flaw of Insurrection, that, during the writing process, Berman and Piller actively pushed against the instinct to do an action packed follow-up in the vein of First Contact, and instead pitched a movie which was, in many ways, that movie's complete antithesis. It felt too small scale.
Insurrection is Star Trek to it's core, it's especially 'The Next Generation' to it's core... but it just isn't 'big' enough to be a movie script. And when you gotta sell tickets to survive, that's bad business sense.
So you don't applaud the creators for avoiding the easy way out of taking what they did in the previous money and simply making it bigger with new window dressings?
The fact that they looked at the movie and said "let's make the next one different, let's shift the tone right around" is a great one in the franchise market. They may have failed in the execution of that, but I'm happy to see they tried.
In this instance, I wish they had done that instead of what we got. It's not like it was even a massive shift in tone like The Voyage Home was is it? It just seemed to become... bland for want of a better word.
It's not often I find myself disagreeing with T'Girl on anything here, but I must say that on this one occasion I must (regretfully) disagree.
While I don't necessarily think I'd have preferred to have seen The Dominion War transferred to the big screen, on a basic level I can't agree with the statement that being smaller was a good thing. For all Star Trek's noble philosophical aims, rule one of making a big damn movie is that you don't "do" small-scale. And I think it is a big flaw of Insurrection, that, during the writing process, Berman and Piller actively pushed against the instinct to do an action packed follow-up in the vein of First Contact, and instead pitched a movie which was, in many ways, that movie's complete antithesis. It felt too small scale.
Insurrection is Star Trek to it's core, it's especially 'The Next Generation' to it's core... but it just isn't 'big' enough to be a movie script. And when you gotta sell tickets to survive, that's bad business sense.
So you don't applaud the creators for avoiding the easy way out of taking what they did in the previous money and simply making it bigger with new window dressings?
The fact that they looked at the movie and said "let's make the next one different, let's shift the tone right around" is a great one in the franchise market. They may have failed in the execution of that, but I'm happy to see they tried.
In this instance, I wish they had done that instead of what we got. It's not like it was even a massive shift in tone like The Voyage Home was is it? It just seemed to become... bland for want of a better word.
+1 (and +1 to Lance).
Thematically, it was interesting and right up TNG's alley. As I've posted before, I saw it as 1960's communal left-wing college student values versus the values of that same group of people when they grew up into yuppies (which is why I thought it was neat that they turned out to be the same race). It was a "good Kirk, bad Kirk" thing: neither group was whole on its own. The Ba'ku needed the technology of the Federation to protect them, just as the college students needed their checks from Mom and Dad to sustain their lifestyles (the irony of that being lost on them). The So'na had sold out their ideals, just as many of the 1960s radicalized or very liberal students did when they got jobs, moved into gated communities, started paying homeowner's association fees, had children, and got IRAs.
The problem is, a story centered around conflicts of values like that just isn't going to be the whizz-bang big screen event and popcorn-munching treat moviegoers want to see. On the other hand, it would've been a top ten TNG episode, in my opinion.
It was, to put it diplomatically, a quiet movie that didn't know if it wanted to be taken seriously or not. It also lacked the charm of TVH, which was a 180 degree turn from what came before it. The only way TVH worked was that it was an open and complete farce -- in the good theater use of the term -- and everyone, even the characters, knew it.
