Should 1701-A just have been another refit Constitution class?
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I really loved the facelift the bridge got at the end of The Voyage Home. I was real disappointed when I found out they weren't going to use it going forward.
I was glad they didn't. While I liked the new touchscreen panels, that bridge was otherwise too dull and plain.
I would have loved for them to go forward with that, as well. It had a great new look and update to what came before. The new bridge was too drastic a change and didn't seem to fit with the "look" of that era. VI made improvements to what was done in V but still prefer the old design.
The reuse of the TMP Enterprise model at the end of TVH would have been perfectly fine had TVH been the final TOS film. That way the ship and its further adventures under Kirk's command would have been left to the imagination, and we wouldn't have been led to believe that these same seven people who have been getting on in age and going their separate ways would actually have continued to serve together for another 6+ years. I also understand that the use of the model was predicated on two things: That they really didn't have any other choice, and that it was meant to be a metaphor for Spock's returning from the dead.
For the in-universe reason why it was used, I've always felt that Starfleet was planning on building a second Excelsior class ship and christening it the Enterprise-A in honor of the TOS ship, but the events of TVH necessitated a last-minute change of plans to honor Kirk. I think the TMP Ent-A was then always meant to just be a temporary posting for Kirk until the new ship (now christened the Ent-B) was finished construction. That would be a valid reason why the ship was perhaps just an older Connie that was meant to be decommissioned but was instead renamed and reactivated for several more years. That would explain why the ship had so many malfunctions and why it was decommissioned again so soon.
Now with that all said, what I wish would have happened (had Paramount had the foresight) was that ILM actually built a new model for the Enterprise-A, and that TVH would lead directly into TNG (but with the time period staying the same as the movies). Let Shatner star as Captain Kirk for the first season, but gradually phase him out and bring in a new cast. I think doing it that way would have severely limited the initial bad feeling the TOS cast vocalized when they learned of TNG.
For the in-universe reason why it was used, I've always felt that Starfleet was planning on building a second Excelsior class ship and christening it the Enterprise-A in honor of the TOS ship, but the events of TVH necessitated a last-minute change of plans to honor Kirk. I think the TMP Ent-A was then always meant to just be a temporary posting for Kirk until the new ship (now christened the Ent-B) was finished construction. That would be a valid reason why the ship was perhaps just an older Connie that was meant to be decommissioned but was instead renamed and reactivated for several more years. That would explain why the ship had so many malfunctions and why it was decommissioned again so soon.
Now with that all said, what I wish would have happened (had Paramount had the foresight) was that ILM actually built a new model for the Enterprise-A, and that TVH would lead directly into TNG (but with the time period staying the same as the movies). Let Shatner star as Captain Kirk for the first season, but gradually phase him out and bring in a new cast. I think doing it that way would have severely limited the initial bad feeling the TOS cast vocalized when they learned of TNG.
Exactly how I felt about it in The Final Frontier. Thankfully, Nick Meyer had them make changes that gave it some character in The Undiscovered Country.
This is a re-post of my thoughts on this subject from a previous thread:
The more I think of it, the more I think the 1701-A should have been an Excelsior class flagship, briefly given to Kirk and Our Heroes for their service and sacrifice.
For films V and VI, the symbolism of the Old Generation commanding the face of the New Era could have been so much more effective than simply putting them on another refitted Connie. To the average viewer --or even the casual Trekkie --giving them another Connie also cheapened the death of the original 1701. It was a reset button of sorts. But it wouldn't have been if Our Heroes would have been given an Excelsior class. And the conversations and themes they had in both TFF and TUC could have been even more vivid if the 1701-A would have been an Excelsior class.
The destruction of the 1701 is underrated. It signifies Kirk's final (and maybe most significant, considering his familial history) act of sacrifice to save Spock. It's well written and executed, and it's been unfairly shafted as a story arc -- in part because those who first analyzed it simply didn't want to witness her destruction.
The more I think of it, the more I think the 1701-A should have been an Excelsior class flagship, briefly given to Kirk and Our Heroes for their service and sacrifice.
For films V and VI, the symbolism of the Old Generation commanding the face of the New Era could have been so much more effective than simply putting them on another refitted Connie. To the average viewer --or even the casual Trekkie --giving them another Connie also cheapened the death of the original 1701. It was a reset button of sorts. But it wouldn't have been if Our Heroes would have been given an Excelsior class. And the conversations and themes they had in both TFF and TUC could have been even more vivid if the 1701-A would have been an Excelsior class.
And yes, making the 1701-A an Excelsior class would have made TFF and TUC seem more like an extended epilogue for the broader TOS saga.
But those themes were already present in those two films anyway.
And doing so would have also created a greater in-universe sense of realism.
But those themes were already present in those two films anyway.
And doing so would have also created a greater in-universe sense of realism.
Ugh, that was a horrible bridge design in VI. The one in V looked like a bridge people actually wanted to be in.
The bridge monitors on STAR TREK V were too low for a seated crewman to view normally, unless they were really small, or bent over their console. And the ones above were too high to be glanced at, without half standing up, at least. Plus, there was the issue of not every monitor could be afforded to be kept on, so, most of the time we're looking at black shinyness, which I don't find particularly interesting to look at. And when they were mostly lit, it looks like Kirk's on "Jeopardy." Nick recognised that there were many design shortcomings on the new bridge set, but unfortunately, did not have the resources, or correct approach to handling them. Which basically amounted to dressing up the dinner of a dog ...
My issue with that is that not a single display or console looks anything like the original Enterprise. It wasn't an in-universe evolution, it was a replacement.
I agree. To me it just cheapened how important the 1701 was as a "character" in TOS and the 1st 3 films to simply have another one ready that was the same ship externally with an "A" on it. I thing Star Trek makers go overboard to placate it's audience that nothing bad that happens to a one of the shows heroes is ever permanent. At the end of TVH surely everyone realized that TOS cast had probably 2 films left in them (Despite Shatner's best attempt to end it with TFF) Why not change at least one major element by the end of the series.
Instead as they cruised into the sunset it was basically "Hey folks 25 years and nothing is really different." With the major exception of Sulu commanding the Excelsior, it was all basically the same as it was in TOS". So in 25 years nothing really evolved except for them being older and fatter and the characters acted more mature.....Kirk had been a top brass Admiral, but was now Captain of the Enterprise, Spock had been Captain of the Enterprise, and also dead, but now was Kirk's loyal first officer, Chekov had been a first officer on Reliant, but was now just back to doing a little bit of everything, Bones had left starfleet and seemed happy to do it and was pissed when he was called back in TOS, yet he stayed for some reason. Scotty was still in engineering and Uhura was still communications officer. Ranks had changed but noone except Sulu really evolved into anything new. At least if they had changed the Enterprise-A into a new design instead of another 1701 refit version at least ONE major element would have changed from TOS. But it seemed Paramount was so afraid of pissing off fans that they weren't willing to say "Hey folks, things change over time.....deal with it."
Also bringing the 1701 refit back as the "A" Star Trek continued the pattern that started with TWOK that, for the most part, the most assured thing in the universe, death, didn't really apply to most main good guys on ST. Which has just gotten ridiculous how often they've used it.
I understand TWOK was intended to be the end for Spock and Nimoy made it all different when he had a change of heart about wanting to end the character and he could direct if he returned and so on. So real life events made it so they had to bring Spock from the dead.
But then they "killed" the Enterprise, only to bring it back in its identical form basically saying "See the Enterprise you knew and loved isn't gone." Then Tasha Yar died (Great career move Denise Crosby), but they found ways to bring Denise back for several episodes. Scotty would of course died of old age in TNG.....but wait, he's alive in a transporter loop!!!! Dax was killed, but not totally dead since her essence lived on. Sisko might be dead, but maybe not. Data was killed, but the hint was dropped "Oh wait, he might not be gone after all" and of course Kirk bought it twice in Generations, but the first time was really alive in the Nexus and now after his second "death" apparently he'll appear alive in the next film. Kirk also dies in Into Darkness, for a whole 10 minutes. (I have no idea if they did this on VOY or ENT cuz I never watched those shows)
Yeah characters like David an Sarek did die for good and the Enterprise D was never revived. But for Christ sakes can't you just kill off a major character and say "That's it folks....no time travel or parallel universe or other thing is going to bring them back."
At least in Star Wars when a good/popular guy dies, they stay dead. Kenobi, Yoda, Vader....They never came back except as spirits that really couldn't do anything except shimmer and talk. Boba Fett buys it, albeit in a stupid way, on screen (Although it's revealed in a book he is able to blast his way out of the Sarlacc) And I can't believe I'm referencing the prequels but Qui-Gon, Mace Windu and Padme all die and that's the end.
When they brought Spock back I could buy it. But when it became a regular theme that death (Including that of the 1701) was not necessarily permanent, on a regular basis it got really old quick.
Death happens, even Clint Eastwood buys it in Gran Torino, stop constantly finding ways to get around it. Either kill them off or keep them alive stop trying to have it both ways so often.
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I remember in an interview they said the destruction of the Enterprise was necessary for Kirk to get Spock back in Shakespearean context- to get something truly important there must be a balancing loss.
I know they chose to replace the ship with another Constitution Refit was for both budget and trying to preserve an iconic element in the show. What I wish they have done was modify the existing miniature in some way to make it look similar but not just a repainted hull with an 'A' on it. Plant-ons like they did do to make the Excelsior model look unique for the 1701-B would have been easy- just something to let us know it was a different ship instead of a rebooted clone. They did alter some of the exterior paint along the strongback, but you have to really know the ship to notice anything different.
I know they chose to replace the ship with another Constitution Refit was for both budget and trying to preserve an iconic element in the show. What I wish they have done was modify the existing miniature in some way to make it look similar but not just a repainted hull with an 'A' on it. Plant-ons like they did do to make the Excelsior model look unique for the 1701-B would have been easy- just something to let us know it was a different ship instead of a rebooted clone. They did alter some of the exterior paint along the strongback, but you have to really know the ship to notice anything different.
From what I understand, you have pissy fans to thank for that.
Apparently the whole point of building the Excelsior model was that it would have eventually been Kirk's new command after the NCC-1701 was destroyed. It was built the way it was by ILM because it was a much easier model to film than the unwieldy TMP Enterprise.
But apparently a bunch of self-serving fans wrote letters complaining that they hated the Excelsior and that they didn't like the rumor that it was going to be Kirk's new ship. So instead of ignoring these whiny assholes, the movie producers decided to cater to them and bring back the TMP Enterprise, which caused consternation at ILM because they always hated filming it.
I would have liked them to have gotten a different ship. Maybe not the Excelsior, but something like the "Churchill class".
http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE...___uss_churchill_by_unusualsuspex-d6u6z2w.jpg
http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE...___uss_churchill_by_unusualsuspex-d6u6z2w.jpg
Wow, that's...an ugly ship.
As I said before, I'd have been fine with ILM building a new model that looked like the Ent-D for the Ent-A (minus those glowy red Bussards that hark back to TOS; I never liked those) with the intent that TNG would take place directly after TVH. The Galaxy class was a great design, probably the best Trek ship design after the TMP Enterprise.
Excelsior was considered ugly in 1984. It wasn't until the Galaxy-class arrived that the old Excelsior started to get more fans in the fandom. More and more as time went on, until it finally had it's day under Captain Sulu. Then it was accepted fully.
It was the supership in the old FASA game. If an Excelsior is on the table, stuff is going to happen, because it can both take and dish out a pounding.
DC Comics had gone with the idea that Admiral Kirk would be handed the Excelsior after Star Trek III. After settling for his crimes via saving the Federation (again). It was provisional, and he was mostly dealing with what was starting to be considered a lemon after its failure to catch Enterprise. But Scott was able to get her running dispite his protests. Plus knocking Captain Styles down a notch again was fun.
It was the supership in the old FASA game. If an Excelsior is on the table, stuff is going to happen, because it can both take and dish out a pounding.
DC Comics had gone with the idea that Admiral Kirk would be handed the Excelsior after Star Trek III. After settling for his crimes via saving the Federation (again). It was provisional, and he was mostly dealing with what was starting to be considered a lemon after its failure to catch Enterprise. But Scott was able to get her running dispite his protests. Plus knocking Captain Styles down a notch again was fun.
I beg to differ.
I think the Excelsior was a pretty popular design when it debuted in STIII. Same with the Grissom. It was only by TNG that both designs were so overused (especially with stock footage) that fans were clamoring for more new designs.
+1
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