shame Meyer didnt do any TNG

[Khan 2.0]

Meyer directing TNG

I wish Meyer had done more Trek movies. it dosnt seem right that he was around for all of them yet they only used him 3 films out of 9 (obviously he couldn't do TMP, and I never expected him to be involved in the JJ films despite the JJ connection. Isnt he his godfather?)

From various sources, trivia etc it appears Paramount approached him for almost every Trek movie post TWOK ..I get why he didn't want to be involved in III (Spocks resurrection. he didn't want to cheat the audience), and V (the whole V thing had to be Shatners anyway due to the clause, Meyer would've only been involved in co-writing it which he didn't want to do with the 'god' plot)....but I think he could've done some great things with TNG - if theyd got him to do Generations he might've delivered a terrific time travel movie involving both casts (& McDowell who he had directed in Time After Time) - Yesterdays Enterprise meets Voyage Home/Time After Time (Paramount would've had to have delayed its release to get it right - maybe for 96 the 30th anniversary). and for Nemesis maybe he could done TNGs Wrath of Khan had he directed and scripted - not so much a rip off Wrath of Khan (as NEM turned out) but a fresh take on it with a powerhouse performance from PStewart and whoever his nemesis would've been...who knows. just a pity that they had Meyer there and didn't use him for any TNG movies. I just think it would've worked (Sherlock Holmes holodeck scenes, Shakespeare quoting Stewart giving a performance of a lifetime, more militaristic naval theme etc)

 

[EnriqueH]

I think Meyer said he couldn't relate to the TNG series as much, or something to that effect.

Anyway, talented a writer as he is, I'm not sure he would've been a good fit for TNG, especially with his militaristic sensibilities.

I'm convinced Meyer (and Nimoy) did their best work when balanced out by Harve Bennett. Those were basically the behind-the-scenes equivalent of Kirk, Spock and McCoy of the Trek movie franchise.

 

[Christopher]

Anyway, talented a writer as he is, I'm not sure he would've been a good fit for TNG, especially with his militaristic sensibilities.

Indeed. Meyer probably hated TNG. He's always been very cynical about the future and never bought into Roddenberry's utopianism at all. TNG's approach would've been anathema to him. I've never liked the more militaristic and aggressively anti-futurist elements he brought to his Trek movies, but at least TOS had some elements of militarism and traditionalism alongside the more peaceful and forward-looking stuff, so it's not an absolute mismatch. For TNG, it would've been. I can't imagine Meyer ever wanting to do it, and I can't imagine the result looking anything like TNG if he had.

 

[EnriqueH]

Yeah, his militaristic side definitely went too far in TUC.

Christopher, I know you're not a huge TWOK fan, but I'm curious: Which do you like better II or VI?

I dunno, I was disappointed with VI this last viewing a month or two ago. It's a solid film, I guess, but there was more wrong with it than I previously thought.

 

[dub]

The militaristic stuff really suited the TOS crew, especially Kirk IMO. I don't think it would have worked for the TNG crew at all. Even so, I would have been interested to see his take on it. It might have been a guilty pleasure for me if it happened.

 

[Ithekro]

He might have been suited for DS9 though.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Berman recently tweeted about Meyer directing a TNG (possibly NEM)
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=237724

Regarding militaristic TNG , didn't that happen anyway FC onwards?

 

[Christopher]

Christopher, I know you're not a huge TWOK fan, but I'm curious: Which do you like better II or VI?

That's hard to say. They're both seriously flawed. I guess I'd give VI the slight edge, though that's largely because I prefer its score. And because it was a bigger production that felt more like a feature film and less like a studio-bound TV movie, and because it actually had a large scope and a message rather than just being a narrow-focused story of personal revenge. But it does have huge flaws of its own, like the crew's uncharacteristically ramped-up bigotry toward the Klingons, Spock's mind-rape of Valeris, and the way it has McCoy work on the torpedo that destroys the Klingons even though, A, he once swore he'd never take life, and B, there's no reason a doctor would be qualified for that work. TWOK has tons of conceptual problems, but it doesn't undermine the characters the way TUC does -- I'll give it that. (Well, it undermines Khan hugely, reducing him to a cartoon lunatic, but the core cast isn't that badly handled.)

Wow, so now I seem to be leaning toward TWOK. I really don't know which one I prefer. I haven't seen them in a while.

 

[Synnöve]

...and because it actually had a large scope and a message rather than just being a narrow-focused story of personal revenge.

I just cannot fathom this perception: TWOK is anything BUT a narrow focused story on revenge that is lacking a message. The thematic musings and emotional arcs deal with so much more and the scope is more than just the amount of sets, locations, and characters involves.

 

[Christopher]

^I mean it's narrow in that the action focuses on two ships and their crews and commanders rather than a larger scope. The premise of Khan's Augments stealing a starship and a weapon of mass destruction could've led to a story of much broader scope, but since TWOK was a low-budget project originally conceived as a TV movie, it was instead more restricted in focus, focusing on Khan's vendetta against Kirk and the clash between two ships in one area, rather than the more expansive astropolitical story of TUC.

And sure, TWOK has themes, but they're personal themes about aging and mortality and friendship. TUC was more of a social and political allegory about the end of the Cold War. My point was that it feels like a bigger, more epic story rather than a smaller personal story, and thus more like a feature film.

 

[Cyke101]

I know OP specified TNG, but now it makes me wonder if Meyer would take on DS9 in some way. Would he find it too militaristic? Would he push it even further? Any conjecture will be enjoyed, I assure you all.

 

[Memory Alpha]

With some of the literary themes in FC, he's have been great for that. I've always thought that if an analogy were to be forced, the Borg are to Picard what the Klingons are to Kirk (in many ways I wish that analogy were more overt), but he could have done very well with the FC script. NEM was an atrocity, I doubt he could have saved it, so in the end his good name would be attached to it, so I don't know about that one.

Overall, I think Meyer's perspective would have added diversity to TNG, so sure.

 

[johnjm22]

^I mean it's narrow in that the action focuses on two ships and their crews and commanders rather than a larger scope. The premise of Khan's Augments stealing a starship and a weapon of mass destruction could've led to a story of much broader scope, but since TWOK was a low-budget project originally conceived as a TV movie, it was instead more restricted in focus, focusing on Khan's vendetta against Kirk and the clash between two ships in one area, rather than the more expansive astropolitical story of TUC.

And sure, TWOK has themes, but they're personal themes about aging and mortality and friendship. TUC was more of a social and political allegory about the end of the Cold War. My point was that it feels like a bigger, more epic story rather than a smaller personal story, and thus more like a feature film.

Whether a story is large or small, doesn't make it good or bad.

Personally, I dislike how so many contemporary mainstream movies feel the need to be as big as possible all the time.

It's especially problematic when you're making a series of films. When you blow your load, there's not as much left for the next film.

 

[Christopher]

Whether a story is large or small, doesn't make it good or bad.

I wasn't saying it did. A comparison doesn't have to be a value judgment. Good grief, I specifically said in my post that I didn't know which movie I liked better. I was just comparing their different approaches, what aspects seemed to work better for me. In some contexts I might prefer a more personal, intimate story, while in others I might prefer a larger, more epic story. It's not as simple as "This is always good/bad."

In the case of TWOK, my issue with the narrow focus of the story is that the premise has the potential to be so much more. I would've been very interested in seeing a story about Khan's or Genesis's larger impact on the galaxy. "Space Seed" set up a fascinating question: What would we see if this breed of superhumans were able to build their own world, their own future? And TWOK totally tossed it aside. I think that's a missed opportunity. And frankly I find revenge to be a very petty motivation for any character. Khan had so much else going for him in "Space Seed." Brilliant intellect, vast ambition -- he was a conqueror, a world leader. That could've been the makings of a really impressive villain. But some crazy guy who just wanted to kill the guy he blamed for his wife's death, and had only nebulous goals beyond that, didn't make all that interesting a bad guy in my book. My preferred type of villain is someone like Gargoyles' Xanatos, who recognizes that "Revenge is a sucker's game" and doesn't let personal vendettas distract him from his greater goals. That kind of villain is far more dangerous and effective, because he doesn't sabotage himself with his own obsessions.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

"Space Seed" set up a fascinating question: What would we see if this breed of superhumans were able to build their own world, their own future? And TWOK totally tossed it aside.

That's a really, really good point. At the end of Space Seed, Khan says "And I've gotten something else I wanted: a world to win, an empire to build." Even the music at that point emphasizes it, as though even in defeat, Khan has plans to continue his quest! Even as a kid, I got a bit of an unsettling vibe from that. This man was not finished.

So I can definitely see how the glorified dust bowl scenario we got in The wrath of Khan would be disappointing in that way.

 

[Nebusj]

That's a really, really good point. At the end of Space Seed, Khan says "And I've gotten something else I wanted: a world to win, an empire to build." Even the music at that point emphasizes it, as though even in defeat, Khan has plans to continue his quest! Even as a kid, I got a bit of an unsettling vibe from that. This man was not finished.

So I can definitely see how the glorified dust bowl scenario we got in The wrath of Khan would be disappointing in that way.

It does make for a cute little joke (and, come to think of it, yet another iteration of the Moby Dick motif) that for all Khan's (and his followers') talent and ability and ambition, they're fantastically helpless in the face of nature [1], which swats them aside in under half a year and grinds down the remainder over the following decade and a half.


[1] Treating for the sake of the allusion the destruction of Ceti Alpha V as a natural occurrence, of course.

 

[BillJ]

"Space Seed" set up a fascinating question: What would we see if this breed of superhumans were able to build their own world, their own future? And TWOK totally tossed it aside.

That's a really, really good point. At the end of Space Seed, Khan says "And I've gotten something else I wanted: a world to win, an empire to build." Even the music at that point emphasizes it, as though even in defeat, Khan has plans to continue his quest! Even as a kid, I got a bit of an unsettling vibe from that. This man was not finished.

So I can definitely see how the glorified dust bowl scenario we got in The wrath of Khan would be disappointing in that way.

But what could 80 people, even with heightened abilities, have accomplished in fifteen years? If it hadn't been for Ceti Alpha VI exploding, they may have all been victims of disease or drought or widlife.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Nicholas Meyer would've been temprementally unsuited for STAR TREK: The Next Generation. I'm glad for STAR TREK II: The Wrath of Khan, it's definitely a classic and the credit is due him, to a large measure. But TNG was out of his league. The Original Series was like the John the Baptist of the franchise. Having it so over the top and making a big noise, was fine for Nick. But The Next Generation was STAR TREK how it was supposed to be. How it was meant to be. And though Nick's known for his intellectual prowise, he just didn't have the finesse to take on a series on that Order of Sophistocation. Not if you look at the rest of his résumé. "No Offense."

 

[MakeshiftPython]

If anything, I think he would have had a lot of fun with GENERATIONS in certain respects, especially with the introduction of the TNG crew wearing naval uniforms of the 18th century. If he ever saw it, I wonder how much of a kick he got out of seeing Picard and crew entering the bridge in those uniforms. It's about as literal as Trek ever got with its allusions to Horatio Hornblower.

 

[EnriqueH]

But The Next Generation was STAR TREK how it was supposed to be. How it was meant to be.