Let's Talk About Insurrection:

[Candlelight]

Lance,
Well, I think they were thinking along the lines of a shift in theme like what you saw from ST III to ST IV. The problem is, FC was really, really good, and so it was a near impossible thing to do to follow that up. You go too far, you get something like NEM. You don't go far enough, the reaction is meh. Expectation is nearly everything.

There is more action in INS than I somehow remember, although the confrontation between the Enterprise and the enemy ships is pretty brief, and Riker rigs a way out of it that would make MacGyver proud. Still, at least the Enterprise does not get beaten to pieces for once.

3) the romance between Picard and Anij works well and does not slow the story down,

Didn't it make you suspicious of Picard's motivations?

Eh, it was high time Jean-Luc found himself a girlfriend. I was never a big fan of the almost monk-ly avoidance of relationships for "professional reasons" that was applied to every character.

Considering he lost his whole family a couple of movies earlier he was probably still wanting a reason to, ahem, 'repopulate' the Picard line.

 

[HIjol]

3) the romance between Picard and Anij works well and does not slow the story down,

Didn't it make you suspicious of Picard's motivations?

Nah, hell, the first time I set "screen eyes" on her I was struck by the thunderbolt. I wanted to have HER babies. I think he just got touched by who and what she was.

But in Picard's case, he was of a certain age and position where he might be expected to be above that sort of thing ...

'Frakes! Been a while and good to "see" you. He seemed virile enough, though you are correct, he was getting up there in years. And, I think you are absolutely right! He totally wanted to get above that sort of thing.

 

[2takesfrakes]

HIjol? It has, indeed, been a while since last we "spoke." And.....why......aren't......you.......talking.....like......this? Is this really "you"? Or your doppleganger? Tell me true.

 

[HIjol]

HIjol? It has, indeed, been a while since last we "spoke." And.....why......aren't......you.......talking.....like......this? Is this really "you"? Or your doppleganger? Tell me true.

C'est Moi, reborn!

I announced my entry into the ETC. (Ellipses Treatment Center) on a number of Threads on this very Forum.

"Huzzah!!," was the consensus, and the support and pledges and Love has cascaded down ever since.

Well, no, not actually. But there were a few that were glad.

In any case, the First Step is recognizing you have a problem.

Post On, My Friend!!!

 

[2takesfrakes]

That's wonderful news, HIjol! On the Inssurection front, you're right - Anij is quite a charmer! When she told Picard, "I wonder if you're aware of the trust you engender ... Jean-Luc Picard," I melted like butter! Elsewhere in this thread, though, whilst the usual complaints, grievances and disenchantments have found their accustomed expression, I'm also reading some INS love - which is more in keeping with my appraisal of this particular installment. It's not a perfect film, by any means and there are several aspects that I would change, if I could. But Jonathan Frakes' went down some interesting roads in Insurrection whilst maintaining the standards of cinematography we've come to expect - the cast looks awesome!

 

[Richard Baker]

I like Insurrection but it was more like a big TV episode instead of a major motion picture to me. I found the Ba'ku to be unlikable- if they had been indigenous and primitive instead of related to the Son'a I think the story would worked better for me. I wondered how this supposedly swapping of planets could have possibly worked. You have a planet in the briar patch with a huge ring system (wish we could have seen it from the ground in ANY of the scenes- it would have been great visually), a fairly advanced group of people aware of what the sky looks like and what the terrain in the surrounding area/the wildlife is and you expect them to wake up one morning and never notice anything is different?
I do like the character moments and the dynamic visuals- the Riker Maneuver was epic- but while it had a lot of location shooting and they built an entire village it still had that small screen feel to it.

 

[BillJ]

That's wonderful news, HIjol! On the Inssurection front, you're right - Anij is quite a charmer! When she told Picard, "I wonder if you're aware of the trust you engender ... Jean-Luc Picard," I melted like butter! Elsewhere in this thread, though, whilst the usual complaints, grievances and disenchantments have found their accustomed expression, I'm also reading some INS love - which is more in keeping with my appraisal of this particular installment. It's not a perfect film, by any means and there are several aspects that I would change, if I could. But Jonathan Frakes' went down some interesting roads in Insurrection whilst maintaining the standards of cinematography we've come to expect - the cast looks awesome!

Donna Murphy is hot, but Insurrection is still a terrible movie.

 

[Smellmet]

I don't think it's a terrible movie, just an extremely by the numbers mediocre one.

 

[BillJ]

I don't think it's a terrible movie, just an extremely by the numbers mediocre one.

I'd rather watch Battlefield Earth.

 

[roseake]

It's interesting that I stumbled across this thread, because I started college recently and found out that my engineering professor is a huge Star Trek fan. I bumped into him in the food hall and he was wearing an Insurrection t-shirt, to which I commented "Sir, your choice of merchandise is questionable." When I clarified that "Well, Insurrection was the worst of the movies", he threatened to fail me on the spot for such insolence!

I personally thought Insurrection was mediocre at best, not horrific, but definitely the weakest of the franchise. Apparently he thought it was the best! Better than First Contact, even!!

He's a lovely guy but I'm having second thoughts about his sanity... >.>

 

[Lance]

I like Insurrection but it was more like a big TV episode instead of a major motion picture to me. I found the Ba'ku to be unlikable- if they had been indigenous and primitive instead of related to the Son'a I think the story would worked better for me. I wondered how this supposedly swapping of planets could have possibly worked. You have a planet in the briar patch with a huge ring system (wish we could have seen it from the ground in ANY of the scenes- it would have been great visually), a fairly advanced group of people aware of what the sky looks like and what the terrain in the surrounding area/the wildlife is and you expect them to wake up one morning and never notice anything is different?
I do like the character moments and the dynamic visuals- the Riker Maneuver was epic- but while it had a lot of location shooting and they built an entire village it still had that small screen feel to it.

See that's the thing, we see the phrase "like a two part TNG episode" thrown around a lot, but the fact is that I think if it had been made for television then it probably would've been a more satisfying product. I think on TV it would have been accordingly dialled down to explore the complexity of its themes in a mature manner, in the way that TNG episodes often did. It would have been competent, perhaps even lifted by the performances. But it's like I said, the demands of writing a movie seemed lost on Michael Piller, to the point where when the collaborative nature of the medium showed itself (a dozen different people with a dozen different opinions exercising their rights to "script approval"), it ended up destroying another thought-provoking story from the guy who gave us some of TNG's best television instalments.

Things like the tacky romance, the goofy 'humor', the phaser battles, Data saying things like "Saddled Up, Lock And Load!!!" -- all of this is a product of Piller's original script being adapted to the demands expected of movie producers. But it plays against the core of the story, a very contemplative story, a very introverted story. All that stuff isn't what THIS story should have been about. It creates a contrast.

No, the fault lies in that original conception. If laser-zap is what was expected of silver screen Star Trek, then the story has to be about laser-zap from its very conception. It can't just be adapted on-the-fly.

 

[Smellmet]

I don't think it's a terrible movie, just an extremely by the numbers mediocre one.

I'd rather watch Battlefield Earth.

You must really despise this movie...

 

[Smellmet]

I don't think it's a terrible movie, just an extremely by the numbers mediocre one.

I'd rather watch Battlefield Earth.

You must really despise this movie...

 

[BillJ]

I don't think it's a terrible movie, just an extremely by the numbers mediocre one.

I'd rather watch Battlefield Earth.

You must really despise this movie...

Out of everything "Star Trek", there are very few things I truly despise. I can count it on one hand:

• Insurrection
• "Dear Doctor"
• "Fair Haven/Spirit Folk"

 

[HIjol]

Wowsers! Battlefield Earth?
Eeesh, you clearly do not like Insurrection.
"Dougherty, Out."

 

[Makarov]

I honestly would have liked 2-3 more TNG movies as good as Insurrection with Frakes directing. To me Insurrection is the "relocation of a colony" type of TV episode just in film format. So why not do the same with some other great types of TNG TV episodes?

Holodeck gone wrong, Worf family honor, debating Data's rights, maybe those types of episodes could have been movies as well. Nemesis felt kind of off because it didn't feel like anything on a TNG episode really.

 

[Smellmet]

I honestly would have liked 2-3 more TNG movies as good as Insurrection with Frakes directing. To me Insurrection is the "relocation of a colony" type of TV episode just in film format. So why not do the same with some other great types of TNG TV episodes?

Holodeck gone wrong, Worf family honor, debating Data's rights, maybe those types of episodes could have been movies as well. Nemesis felt kind of off because it didn't feel like anything on a TNG episode really.

Because they'd all been covered already at great length in the 7 year TV run?

 

[2takesfrakes]

I honestly would have liked 2-3 more TNG movies ... with Frakes directing.

Outstanding! Absolutely, 100% agree! Who else but Jonathan Frakes could bring out the best of The Next Generation cast? He definitely should've been at the helm for NEMESIS, because - first of all - who's Stuart Baird? Get rid of him. And B.) INSURRECTION is - by and large - a superior product. NEMESIS needed that Frakes' Magic, even if the script only had a very few modifications done to it, he would've made all the difference. When Frakes was denied that opportunity, he was magnanimous and very cordial about the whole, sordid affair ... but it was a let down and a set back. Frakes belongs in the Director's Chair.

 

[Smellmet]

Couldn't agree less. TNG was finished. Done. Finito. All they were ever going to do, even if Nemesis had been successful was limp on with 50-70million dollar budget TV specials with ever diminishing returns at the box office when movie fans were being treated to state of the art blockbusters. Trek didn't deserve to stagger on like that. They couldn't afford to throw 100mil plus at the screen with the current fanbase, so it had to end this way at some point - with a flop.

And I am a big fan of TNG. Nemesis is my favorite TNG movie for pity's sake.

 

[BillJ]

Couldn't agree less. TNG was finished. Done. Finito. All they were ever going to do, even if Nemesis had been successful was limp on with 50-70million dollar budget TV specials with ever diminishing returns at the box office when movie fans were being treated to state of the art blockbusters. Trek didn't deserve to stagger on like that. They couldn't afford to throw 100mil plus at the screen with the current fanbase, so it had to end this way at some point - with a flop.

I think, unfortunately, this is pretty spot on. The Berman years had ran their collective course. People were moving on from Star Trek.