That's probably the case, I just wish I found it more compelling or at least not so on-the-nose.
8X06 "The Caretaker" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!
- Thread starter M.A.C.O.
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That's probably the case, I just wish I found it more compelling or at least not so on-the-nose.
The episode started out really strong, with lots of fun dialogue ("I'm a man of mystery") and the sight of the Doctor trying to pass himself off as a regular human (without even trying to put much of an effort into it, which made it even better).
But as others have said the robot villain was extremely weak and ridiculous looking, which undermined any sense of danger in the story.
And while I haven't had a problem with this Doctor's grumpy, irritable attitude before now, this time I thought it DID cross over into simply being unlikeable much of the time. The extreme animosity between him and Danny in this episode just felt way too forced and over the top, and learning at the end that the Doctor was simply being protective and watching out for Clara doesn't really seem like a good enough explanation for it.
And while I don't have a problem with this Doctor hating soldiers for whatever reason, I did think the episode hammered that point home a little TOO hard and often. To the point of just being annoying.
But as others have said the robot villain was extremely weak and ridiculous looking, which undermined any sense of danger in the story.
And while I haven't had a problem with this Doctor's grumpy, irritable attitude before now, this time I thought it DID cross over into simply being unlikeable much of the time. The extreme animosity between him and Danny in this episode just felt way too forced and over the top, and learning at the end that the Doctor was simply being protective and watching out for Clara doesn't really seem like a good enough explanation for it.
And while I don't have a problem with this Doctor hating soldiers for whatever reason, I did think the episode hammered that point home a little TOO hard and often. To the point of just being annoying.
Best episode this season I think and I liked most of this episode. The robot looked a bit crappy but it wasn't the main focus so ok. Some nice funny moments and I get the Doctor's contempt for soldiers since this is post time War Doctor where he was once one himself. Something Danny seemed to catch onto.
I loved this episode, very fun.
About those saying the enemy was weak, the way I took it is that the bad guy this time wasn't the main story line, it wasn't about the robot, the episode was about Clara and Danny, revealing to Danny what Clara does. That's all. The robot was just there as a background character to give the Doctor reason to be there to reveal that to Danny.
About those saying the enemy was weak, the way I took it is that the bad guy this time wasn't the main story line, it wasn't about the robot, the episode was about Clara and Danny, revealing to Danny what Clara does. That's all. The robot was just there as a background character to give the Doctor reason to be there to reveal that to Danny.
Checkov's gun.
Ben (Jackson. Companion to the 1st and second.) not only was a sailor in the Royal Navy, but he was in uniform.
Ben (Jackson. Companion to the 1st and second.) not only was a sailor in the Royal Navy, but he was in uniform.
I really liked this one. It wasn't as good as Time Heist, but it was still really good, and each week I'm loving Capaldi that much more. I also really did love Danny in this episode, even though I am not a fan of the Danny/Clara relationship, he became a much more interesting character when he stood up to The Doctor. I could have done without the robot stuff, but the shift from humor to serious, while a little jarring, ended up being really well done. It was like watching two episodes in one, and for some reason they connected quite well.
Worst episode sofar overal, although there were some funny moments. Good acting from Capaldi and Coleman though.
The episodes don't seem very cohesive this season, a bit all over the place. Sloppy editing, sloppy writing, I dunno. But there aren't any flued transisions between scenes. Everything just chops off and moves onward.
The episodes don't seem very cohesive this season, a bit all over the place. Sloppy editing, sloppy writing, I dunno. But there aren't any flued transisions between scenes. Everything just chops off and moves onward.
This one is right up there with Time Heist. If you asked me today, I think this one is better, ask me again tomorrow and the answer might flip. I was really getting concerned after the first 3 episodes, but the last 3 have just knocked it out of the park. It's almost like they realized that they had to atone for the hot garbage that was Robot of Sherwood.
Capaldi continues to impress me with his portrayal of the Doctor. There seems to be nothing superfluous with him, everything feels very deliberate, with no time for a pretence of goofing around like previous incarnations.
I've enjoyed the Clara and Danny relationship from the beginning and tonight had some of their best moments yet. I love that he's bothered more about the Doctors attitude and Clara's willingness to follow him, than he is about a time machine disguised as a police box. This guy is no tin dog, and is willing to call the Doctor out on his BS. On the negative side, the robot design was just plain embarrassing. I realize it's just a plot thingy to get Clara, Danny and the Doctor all together, but put some effort into it. The lack of an Ian Chesteron mention or cameo is another negative, this was the perfect setup for at least a nod or a wink.
Capaldi continues to impress me with his portrayal of the Doctor. There seems to be nothing superfluous with him, everything feels very deliberate, with no time for a pretence of goofing around like previous incarnations.
I've enjoyed the Clara and Danny relationship from the beginning and tonight had some of their best moments yet. I love that he's bothered more about the Doctors attitude and Clara's willingness to follow him, than he is about a time machine disguised as a police box. This guy is no tin dog, and is willing to call the Doctor out on his BS. On the negative side, the robot design was just plain embarrassing. I realize it's just a plot thingy to get Clara, Danny and the Doctor all together, but put some effort into it. The lack of an Ian Chesteron mention or cameo is another negative, this was the perfect setup for at least a nod or a wink.
I agree with prior comments regarding how strange the Doctor's feelings about soldiers seem when he has been one himself and many former companions were too. It is really odd when you consider he currently hangs around with a Sontaran, Silurian and a kung fu maid, armed with swords and guns that he leads into battles. Historically, older Doctors were paired with companions like Harry Sullivan because they would handle the physical action scenes as tactical execution to the Doctor's strategic ideas. It may be as simple as this Doctor just has a more exacerbated punk, anti establishment attitude where he's just "the disruptive influence" in his mind against any kind of restrictive entity.
While he's worked with UNIT before and whatnot, he's always avoided violence when possible and I can think of several vague examples of him showing disdain for soldiers and their attitude.
I'm blanking on specifics but how about his opinion of Torchwood and Jack working with them?
Speaking of Torchwood and UNIT, I would really like to see them more on the show. Particularly Torchwood since they're clearly never coming back as their own series. Hasn't UNIT only appeared twice in the entire Moffat Era? Rule of Three and Day of the Doctor?
I'm blanking on specifics but how about his opinion of Torchwood and Jack working with them?
Speaking of Torchwood and UNIT, I would really like to see them more on the show. Particularly Torchwood since they're clearly never coming back as their own series. Hasn't UNIT only appeared twice in the entire Moffat Era? Rule of Three and Day of the Doctor?
Well, you're getting your wish re: UNIT in the finale, of course... That much was announced ages ago.
That struck me, but I guess it was a collective 'you; another teacher said it, the parents just saw Danny as AN Other Teacher (part of the Teacher Collective), just as the Doctor was dismissing him as AN Other Soldier.
I thought that this was a lot of fun. As lightweight romps go, it was way more enjoyable than Robots of Sherwood, for example.
I noticed the guy in the bow tie (Adrian) during the preview at the end of last week's show and wondered if his resemblance to Smith would come into play so I was pleased to see that it did. I thought that whole plot was hilarious.
I'd just gotten used to Peter Capaldi NOT being Malcolm Tucker and then they throw in Ollie Reader at the end! Good job they weren't sharing a screen or I'd be waiting for the insults and F-words to fly!
I noticed the guy in the bow tie (Adrian) during the preview at the end of last week's show and wondered if his resemblance to Smith would come into play so I was pleased to see that it did. I thought that whole plot was hilarious.
I'd just gotten used to Peter Capaldi NOT being Malcolm Tucker and then they throw in Ollie Reader at the end! Good job they weren't sharing a screen or I'd be waiting for the insults and F-words to fly!
Most enjoyable episode of the season for me so far. This episode contained a lot of the fun that's been missing. The Doctor was solidly Doctor-ish here, and him trying to blend in was great. Loved the misunderstanding about the teacher Adrian, the Doctor giving the "disruptive influence" girl a trip in the TARDIS, and the reference to him living with otters for a while after an argument with River. And for the first time the Clara/Danny stuff didn't bore me to tears, though Danny did rub me the wrong way in spots, particularly towards the end.
It would have been nice to have some mention of Ian or the Doctor's past history with Coal Hill, and as others have said, the robot was kind of ridiculous, but overall a really fun episode. Oh, and it was neat to get that different perspective in Missy's world. I really hope the pay-off with her isn't one of those Big Things that proves to be anticlimactic in the end.
It would have been nice to have some mention of Ian or the Doctor's past history with Coal Hill, and as others have said, the robot was kind of ridiculous, but overall a really fun episode. Oh, and it was neat to get that different perspective in Missy's world. I really hope the pay-off with her isn't one of those Big Things that proves to be anticlimactic in the end.
OK. This is really an average of some stuff that I really liked, but also some that I really disliked.
I really liked the Doctor going undercover in the school storyline. All that was great fun!
I didn't like the Doctor's attitude towards Danny. That was just unbelievable. It really detracted from the story. Also, didn't care for the domestic drama (i.e. soap opera) elements between Clara and Danny. That also detracted. I don't watch DW for that!
Also, points deducted for no mention of Ian whatsoever, much less a cameo. Come on Moffat, get William Russell in while you can.
This one could've been really good but a number of detracting elements brought it down to average.
Mr Awe
I really liked the Doctor going undercover in the school storyline. All that was great fun!
I didn't like the Doctor's attitude towards Danny. That was just unbelievable. It really detracted from the story. Also, didn't care for the domestic drama (i.e. soap opera) elements between Clara and Danny. That also detracted. I don't watch DW for that!
Also, points deducted for no mention of Ian whatsoever, much less a cameo. Come on Moffat, get William Russell in while you can.
This one could've been really good but a number of detracting elements brought it down to average.
Mr Awe
Honestly, why would William Russel be in a story like this? He's an 80 year old member of the schools board of directors. I still hope he turns up, but this didn't seem like the right story for it.
Not sure what to think about this one either. Some wonderful character stuff that really helped cement Capaldi as the Doctor. Loved the snarky "Go away kid" a lot more than Matt's more whimsical attempts at fitting in.
Clara was likeable enough, as was Danny toward the end when he stopped doing his Micky Smith impression. Though I'm willing to put that down to shock over finding out that aliens were real. But for someone who makes a big deal out of being an ex soldier, I expected more heroism. And do their really teach acrobatics in the army these days?
Quite enjoyed Miss Disruptive Influences failed companion trial. I dunno, she might make a decent companion if they made her even remotely likeable.
Robot was a bit meh. Would have felt more at home in an episode of the Sarah Jane Adventures.
Overall, while I liked the characters, the story just felt too light and fluffy.
Not sure what to think about this one either. Some wonderful character stuff that really helped cement Capaldi as the Doctor. Loved the snarky "Go away kid" a lot more than Matt's more whimsical attempts at fitting in.
Clara was likeable enough, as was Danny toward the end when he stopped doing his Micky Smith impression. Though I'm willing to put that down to shock over finding out that aliens were real. But for someone who makes a big deal out of being an ex soldier, I expected more heroism. And do their really teach acrobatics in the army these days?
Quite enjoyed Miss Disruptive Influences failed companion trial. I dunno, she might make a decent companion if they made her even remotely likeable.
Robot was a bit meh. Would have felt more at home in an episode of the Sarah Jane Adventures.
Overall, while I liked the characters, the story just felt too light and fluffy.
For me, I am unable to rate this episode. I am bringing up controversial topics and ideas in this post. My country, the US, is experiencing partisan and racial bigotry - the likes of which have not been seen in a long time.
As I said, I live in the United States. I am one of those people who could take the citizenship test and pass it. Many other Americans couldn’t. I am one of those who know there is an election coming up, and I feel that, if the pundits are correct, that the first black president in our country will find himself in a position where the opposition party will do everything in their power to discredit him and delegitimize his presidency. They might even attempt to impeach him - for what, I don't know. President Obama might as well run the clock down.
This brings me to one of the issues I have with this episode, and why I can’t rate the episode. I am versed in the history of my country. In the US, blacks have been stigmatized for being intellectually deficient and have been persecuted by the ruling majority, especially since the days of the Reconstruction when some whites feared that blacks would one day have power and "command" whites. (This is one of the cornerstones of the current Republican antipathy against President Obama.) Blacks, especially males, who were loitering and causing nobody any harm were targeted by police. I saw in the episode this exact situation. The writers could have chosen any other means to show the cop encountering the robot, without including the scene of the two black students being told by the police officer to stop loitering. Then there is the Doctor thinking that Danny Pink couldn’t possibly be a maths teacher and that he somehow had to be a P.E. teacher. Blacks were and are perceived as being excellent in sports because of their supposed physical superiority by whites. (It didn’t help my perception of the episode when Pink did a miraculous leap over the robot.) Finally, did anyone else notice that Pink spoke to black parents and that Oswald spoke to white parents, and that there was a distance between the two desks, as if there was a dividing line between them?
Race has been an issue with this show. There is a documentary on one of the DVDs about black participation in the series. William Hartnell was known to be a racist - this is one of the reasons that blacks didn't appear in his tenure as the Doctor.
Another issue I have with this episode is that Doctor Who had, for the most part, minimized its Britishness. Yes, it was a British show with a Brit-centric view of the world. However, I didn’t need an education in British history and culture to understand what was going on. In this one, I needed that education to understand how a commoner like Danny Pink would have developed feelings for officers from the aristocracy. This divide between commoners and the aristocrats is entrenched in British history and culture.
And when did Gallifrey become a surrogate imperial England? Now, I learn that the Doctor was an aristocrat, born into a life of wealth and privilege, who, like many in the aristocracy in English history, had a choice – join the army or go to college (the Academy). This was especially the case when there was a British empire. The thing I learned from watching the classic Doctor Who was that Gallifrey was an isolationist world that would, on occasion in its distant past, fight existentialist threats, like the Great Vampires. Why would a world like Gallifrey need a standing army with its officers pulled from the ranks of the aristocrats? Gallifrey was protected by all means of protections.
In the classic Doctor Who, the Doctor left Gallifrey because it stopped being fun and he wanted adventure. Now, I learn that he left Gallifrey because he wanted to fight for the oppressed and persecuted. Huh?
One thing I am learning from the commentaries for the classic Doctor Who series was that there was an understanding that the Doctor wouldn't attempt to "stoop" to our level of existence. He was an alien from an alien culture. The companion or companions were to be our means for understanding him.
The music for this show attempted to make this a light-hearted romp; however, for me, the issues of racism and class divide resulted in a Janus-like episode.
If anything, this season alters my perception of what came before. Looks like next week is a return to form with a base under siege story.
As I said, I live in the United States. I am one of those people who could take the citizenship test and pass it. Many other Americans couldn’t. I am one of those who know there is an election coming up, and I feel that, if the pundits are correct, that the first black president in our country will find himself in a position where the opposition party will do everything in their power to discredit him and delegitimize his presidency. They might even attempt to impeach him - for what, I don't know. President Obama might as well run the clock down.
This brings me to one of the issues I have with this episode, and why I can’t rate the episode. I am versed in the history of my country. In the US, blacks have been stigmatized for being intellectually deficient and have been persecuted by the ruling majority, especially since the days of the Reconstruction when some whites feared that blacks would one day have power and "command" whites. (This is one of the cornerstones of the current Republican antipathy against President Obama.) Blacks, especially males, who were loitering and causing nobody any harm were targeted by police. I saw in the episode this exact situation. The writers could have chosen any other means to show the cop encountering the robot, without including the scene of the two black students being told by the police officer to stop loitering. Then there is the Doctor thinking that Danny Pink couldn’t possibly be a maths teacher and that he somehow had to be a P.E. teacher. Blacks were and are perceived as being excellent in sports because of their supposed physical superiority by whites. (It didn’t help my perception of the episode when Pink did a miraculous leap over the robot.) Finally, did anyone else notice that Pink spoke to black parents and that Oswald spoke to white parents, and that there was a distance between the two desks, as if there was a dividing line between them?
Race has been an issue with this show. There is a documentary on one of the DVDs about black participation in the series. William Hartnell was known to be a racist - this is one of the reasons that blacks didn't appear in his tenure as the Doctor.
Another issue I have with this episode is that Doctor Who had, for the most part, minimized its Britishness. Yes, it was a British show with a Brit-centric view of the world. However, I didn’t need an education in British history and culture to understand what was going on. In this one, I needed that education to understand how a commoner like Danny Pink would have developed feelings for officers from the aristocracy. This divide between commoners and the aristocrats is entrenched in British history and culture.
And when did Gallifrey become a surrogate imperial England? Now, I learn that the Doctor was an aristocrat, born into a life of wealth and privilege, who, like many in the aristocracy in English history, had a choice – join the army or go to college (the Academy). This was especially the case when there was a British empire. The thing I learned from watching the classic Doctor Who was that Gallifrey was an isolationist world that would, on occasion in its distant past, fight existentialist threats, like the Great Vampires. Why would a world like Gallifrey need a standing army with its officers pulled from the ranks of the aristocrats? Gallifrey was protected by all means of protections.
In the classic Doctor Who, the Doctor left Gallifrey because it stopped being fun and he wanted adventure. Now, I learn that he left Gallifrey because he wanted to fight for the oppressed and persecuted. Huh?
One thing I am learning from the commentaries for the classic Doctor Who series was that there was an understanding that the Doctor wouldn't attempt to "stoop" to our level of existence. He was an alien from an alien culture. The companion or companions were to be our means for understanding him.
The music for this show attempted to make this a light-hearted romp; however, for me, the issues of racism and class divide resulted in a Janus-like episode.
If anything, this season alters my perception of what came before. Looks like next week is a return to form with a base under siege story.
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I have to admit the though crossed my mind too. The fact that he had an almost irrational dislike of Micky from the start as well could definitely be taken the wrong way. I'm trying to remember, did he treat Rory so badly at first?
I'm not going to jump on the Racism bandwagon though. Considering its one of the only shows I'm aware of where interracial relationships are actually common.
I'm not going to jump on the Racism bandwagon though. Considering its one of the only shows I'm aware of where interracial relationships are actually common.
Obama is not the first black president of our country. He's of mixed race. His father was black and his mother was white, so why does everyone think he's the first black president?
I suppose he's a lot like Spock, who, while being half Vulcan and half human, denies his human half and constantly asserts his Vulcan heritage, just like what Obama does with his black/white ancestry.
Now, how about we get back to the Dr. Who episode?
I have to say that I didn't see any of what you mentioned in the episode. I just saw a light hearted story. There have been gags about PE teachers in British sitcoms for years (see Red Dwarf for another example), and it's about low IQ, not about athletic ability and race. It's not unusual to see a policeman urge a truant or two back to school (indeed even parents taking children out of class without good reason is now a crime in the UK) I didn't 'see' any of the other issues that you mentioned. Although to qualify my statement, I am a second generation immigrant, and my parents were in India for its independence from the British Empire, so it's not as if I haven't experienced any of the issues that you mention, albeit from a different ethnic viewpoint. I think that the UK is in a better place right now when it comes to multiculturalism (Islamaphobia notwithstanding) to blind audiences here to such aspects as you bring up.
However, I have on occasion invested a piece of entertainment with my own worldview to such a degree that I couldn't enjoy it the way everyone else did. I can see how that happens.
Point of trivia, next week's episode guest stars Tony Osoba, who when he appeared in Porridge in the seventies was the first Scottish black actor to appear on primetime television.
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