Was the Enterprise-A a hangar queen?

[Xerxes1979]

In ST:VI the senior staff is delievered to spacedock to man the enterprise with Kirk saying some remark to Scotty about finding engineering. Was the Enterprise more or less inactive?

The diplomatic mission had come to head because Spock over the course of some six months had conversations with the Klingon Ambassador and his father(in person most likely). How was this possible if the Enterprise was not inactive doing nothing in spacedock?

Trips to spacedock are most likely for repair and personnel changes. It did not appear that Enterprise was configured as the Academy training ship as it had a full compliment.

I also doubt it was undergoing repair because then it would not need the gaseous anomaly survey equipment would it? If they just completed a refit why would they decommission the ship at the end of the film?

Was it mapping near Earth space? The Excelsior on a similar mission was doing it as part of a classic multi-year deep space mission.

What was the Enterprise-A's mission?

(A) training ship

(B) Earth sector defense

(C) Under constant repair

(D) other

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^After the events of ST III-IV, my sense is that Kirk and his crew were given the Enterprise for special missions that were appropriate given their level of experience; however, most of these were brief "put out the brush fire" assignments that didn't last long, so Kirk and company always returned to spacedock when they were over.

It's actually possible that another crew used the Enterprise for long-term assignments when Kirk and his friends weren't around. Given the ease with which everyone took their stations, it doesn't appear they've been away from them that long, but I also get the sense that most of them hadn't seen one another in quite some time (several months, at least), as McCoy didn't seem to know that Sulu had been promoted or that he was away on his own assignment.

--Sran

 

[FormerLurker]

I would say D) other. By appearances, the Enterprise was stationed either at Spacedock, or in Terran System orbit, to be at the disposal of Kirk and crew as needed, usually for diplomatic appearance purposes. Kirk may have been given the Enterprise so he could command, but Starfleet likely kept him on a short leash.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I would say D) other. By appearances, the Enterprise was stationed either at Spacedock, or in Terran System orbit, to be at the disposal of Kirk and crew as needed, usually for diplomatic appearance purposes. Kirk may have been given the Enterprise so he could command, but Starfleet likely kept him on a short leash.

No problem! Having thought some more about this, I also wonder about something Spock says to Kirk at the outset of TUC:

"I have personally vouched for you in this matter, Captain,"

a statement that both confuses and infuriates Kirk. But my question is this: vouched for him with whom? Gorkon? He would seem to be the most likely choice given that Spock had been in regular contact with him, and given Kirk's history with the Klingons, something that a successful politician like Gorkon would be aware of.

Sarek? Possible but unlikely. Sarek respected Kirk immensely and was extremely grateful (as much as a Vulcan can express such feelings) to his crew for saving Spock. I don't think he had any misgivings about Kirk's involvement and may have actually put the idea into Spock's head in the first place.

Starfleet brass? Now, it gets interesting. Starfleet was also grateful to Kirk for saving Earth during the Whale Probe crisis, but did their gratitude equal forgetting about his earlier disregard for protocol? I doubt it. My impression is that Starfleet still trusted Spock--they allowed him to confer privately with the head of their rival's government--but they weren't sure about Kirk; therefore, Spock went to bat for his friend in an effort to bring Kirk into the fray, knowing that the latter's retirement from full-time duty was approaching and that he would likely never get another chance to heal the wounds inflicted by his son's death.

--Sran

 

[Lance]

Sran's take has always been my take as well. I've often suspected that NCC 1701-A was a kind of "special missions" ship, not exactly a part of the active duty roster any more, and with a command crew that were more or less semi-retired by that point and only recalled together again for specific short-term assignments. NCC 1701-B was probably already under construction at the time, as a part of the whole 'Excelsior project', and the two times that we actually see Kirk and company go out on NCC 1701-A they both involved a specific mission brief and it's implied that the crew are all off doing their own things on Earth when the call to duty finds them. So yeah, the screen evidence backs up this theory.

(When I say "semi-retired", I like to imagine that Kirk, Bones and Scotty were in this category, kind of just loitering on the edge of buying a farm; while Sulu, Uhura, Chekov and Spock probably all had other assignments that weren't Enterprise-specific, but were recalled together as a single crew whenever Starfleet needs 'em for a specific mission, like we saw in The Undiscovered Country.)

 

[Blamo]

In ST:VI the senior staff is delievered to spacedock to man the enterprise with Kirk saying some remark to Scotty about finding engineering. Was the Enterprise more or less inactive?

Given the Enterprise was decommissioned right at the end of ST:VI, I'd say that was a fair assessment.

By that point starfleet was probably in the process of phasing out the old Constitutions in favour of the newer Excelsior class.

 

[Greg Cox]

Just curious: What does "hangar queen" mean? I'm not familiar with the term.

 

[King Bob!]

Just curious: What does "hangar queen" mean? I'm not familiar with the term.

I'm not sure that it is the right way to describe the Enterprise-A from the definitions I've seen.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hangar_queen

(idiomatic, slang, military, aviation) A grounded aircraft which is kept so that its parts can be used in other aircraft.  
(idiomatic, slang, aviation) An aircraft which requires a great deal of regular maintenance and has an unfavorable ratio of maintenance time to flight time.

Maybe the second one?

 

[Leto_II]

Looking at them both, I don't think that even the second definition truly applies -- canonically, we only see the Enterprise-A requiring significant maintenance as part of the plot of one single movie, and both before and afterward this doesn't appear to be anything indicative its standard state of operational capability. One occurrence doesn't really indicate a pattern.

Indeed, this was pretty much the attitude taken by virtually all of the writers who've penned offscreen stories set during that era (2286-93), that the 1701-A's period of malfunction and Spacedock downtime was an anomaly during its service history; a unique situation that was corrected not long thereafter, and which never recurred again on that scale.

While not onscreen, the two DC Comics runs chronicling the Enterprise-A's adventures (as well as largely all of her novel appearances) depict the starship and her crew as being right at the forefront of Starfleet's command structure, as opposed to being a once-in-a-while "special missions" ship. If anything, the NCC-1701-A was every bit as busy as her predecessor in terms of conducting exploratory, first-contact, and interstellar peacekeeping operations, albeit more closely tied to Earth, as well.

While it does appear that the command staff were taking some time away from the starship around the time of the Praxis explosion (Uhura chairing an Academy seminar, etc.), when they return to the ship in the movie, it's also clear that this seems to be the exception, rather than the rule -- the bridge crew slides right back into their familiar roles effortlessly; the Gorkon-mission possibly being just another among recent runs for them.

(With his new Enterprise-A novel about to be released, I'd love to hear a bit more about Greg's own personal interpretations on this whole subject and how it affected his writing process, if he'd be willing to share.)

 

[Timo]

In ST:VI the senior staff is delievered to spacedock to man the enterprise with Kirk saying some remark to Scotty about finding engineering. Was the Enterprise more or less inactive?

I'd rather say the hero officers were. They were about to retire - so it would make sense for Starfleet to have a wholly different bunch of officers making use of the E-A.

The diplomatic mission had come to head because Spock over the course of some six months had conversations with the Klingon Ambassador and his father(in person most likely). How was this possible if the Enterprise was not inactive doing nothing in spacedock?

Easily enough, if Spock had absolutely nothing to do with the Enterprise and very little with Starfleet at that point of his career.

We get no indication that Spock would be the captain of the E-A, or even that he would be her first officer or science officer. He is going to pass some sort of a baton to Valeris, but we don't know which one, and since Valeris is a lowly Lieutenant (Commander?), she might not be able to become either the XO or the CSO at that timepoint yet. Nor could she become Kirk's right-hand Vulcan, since Kirk, too, will soon retire. She could still become Spock's successor in many an endeavor.

Trips to spacedock are most likely for repair and personnel changes. It did not appear that Enterprise was configured as the Academy training ship as it had a full compliment.

The timing of the events doesn't require the E-A to be standing by while Spock delivers his shocking speech. Might be the ship was recalled following that speech, or moments before it, and arrived a few days or weeks later, for her all-important symbolic role in the peace mission.

I also doubt it was undergoing repair because then it would not need the gaseous anomaly survey equipment would it? If they just completed a refit why would they decommission the ship at the end of the film?

Because she was shot to hell? Repairing brand-new ships with that level of damage might be worth the while. Repairing older ships (either by structural age or by design, and the E-A definitely qualifies for the latter even if the former can be argued), not so much.

Was it mapping near Earth space? The Excelsior on a similar mission was doing it as part of a classic multi-year deep space mission.

My favorite interpretation here is that Starfleet was doing the International Year of Astrophysics schtick, sending all sorts of "exploration" vessels on a grand endeavor whose true aim was to keep watch on the Klingons. Hence the big E doing "gas sniffing" right next to the Klingon border, and the little E engaged in similar ops under her regular crew (which didn't include any of the main heroes).

What was the Enterprise-A's mission?

D: regular starship duties, under regular crew, but with such symbolic value that every now and then, she would be recalled for special missions under special crew.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MarsWeeps]

If they just completed a refit why would they decommission the ship at the end of the film?

I've always wondered that but were they actually talking about decommissioning the ship or the crew? Consider the following dialogue:

UHURA: Captain, I have orders from Starfleet Command. We're to put back into Spacedock immediately, ...to be decommissioned.

And then...

KIRK: Captain's log, U.S.S. Enterprise, stardate 9529.1. This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command. This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew. To them and their posterity will we commit our future. They will continue the voyages we have begun and journey to all the undiscovered countries, boldly going where no man, where no one, ...has gone before.

Kirk specifically states that "This ship" will get another crew so when Uhura mentioned that they were to report for decommissioning, maybe she was talking about the current crew being decommissioned?

 

[Franklin]

Just curious: What does "hangar queen" mean? I'm not familiar with the term.

I'm not sure that it is the right way to describe the Enterprise-A from the definitions I've seen.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hangar_queen

(idiomatic, slang, military, aviation) A grounded aircraft which is kept so that its parts can be used in other aircraft.  
(idiomatic, slang, aviation) An aircraft which requires a great deal of regular maintenance and has an unfavorable ratio of maintenance time to flight time.

Maybe the second one?

Yeah, it's not exactly the same, but it's a little like calling a car a lemon. An aircraft can be that way right off the assembly line or evolve into that type of aircraft over time.

Bear in mind the shakedown cruise of the Enterprise-A didn't exactly go well. She performed OK in TFF, but it could be implied that she was high maintenance for ever diminishing returns. And, look how old and worn Meyer made her look for TUC.

Further, I'd imagine both Enterprise's under Kirk had pretty extensive repair records -- even if the ships were essentially sound -- because of all the damage they would sustain (how many TOS episodes end with the Enterprise going to a starbase for repairs?). Kirk's adventures were rather hard on his ships. Kind of like Jim Rockford and his Firebird.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Bear in mind the shakedown cruise of the Enterprise-A didn't exactly go well.

Because it wasn't a shakedown cruise. It was called into action long before it was ready.

 

[Timo]

The thing they did at the end of ST4 wasn't exactly action, and didn't go well.

For all we know, the ship was an ancient TOS-era tub undergoing a refit when the decision came from on high to hasten the process so that Kirk could be given an E-nil lookalike as a personal gift. So the dockyards delivered a half-built vessel, believing it would never really see actual service with Kirk in command (because Starfleet would never let that public icon risk himself, nor would it risk letting Kirk embarrass Starfleet ever again).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Franklin]

Bear in mind the shakedown cruise of the Enterprise-A didn't exactly go well.

Because it wasn't a shakedown cruise. It was called into action long before it was ready.

At the beginning of TFF, on the bridge, where a lot of repairs seem to be going on, Scotty mutters, "'Let's see what she's got,' the captain says. And then we found out, didn't we?" That certainly implies the ship was a disappointment from the start.

The thing they did at the end of ST4 wasn't exactly action, and didn't go well.

For all we know, the ship was an ancient TOS-era tub undergoing a refit when the decision came from on high to hasten the process so that Kirk could be given an E-nil lookalike as a personal gift. So the dockyards delivered a half-built vessel, believing it would never really see actual service with Kirk in command (because Starfleet would never let that public icon risk himself, nor would it risk letting Kirk embarrass Starfleet ever again).

Timo Saloniemi

The above could very well be. Though I'd think Kirk would be insulted to be given a half-built (or half-refitted) vessel which carries along with it the insinuation that he's not a front-line captain, any more. For an audience, it would make the passing over the Excelsior on the way to E-A at the end of TVH more symbolic than a tease. It shows Kirk is no longer thought of as a part of Starfleet's future, but as an icon of the past.

 

[MarsWeeps]

The thing they did at the end of ST4 wasn't exactly action, and didn't go well.

I forgot that the end of ST4 could have been considered a shakedown cruise for the Enterprise-A. The fact that a whole new bridge module was installed in ST5 would indicate that the ship wasn't mission ready yet.

 

[Timo]

...I'm not too hot on that "bridge module" thing. The interiors of the bridge are modular already (for photography reasons ITRW, but for presumably different reasons in-universe), and the dockyard crews could simply move individual wall wedges to create whichever bridge configurations were needed at a given time. Whether the change from ST4 to ST5 would involve swapping every wedge, or merely changing a few and then re-carpeting, we don't know. Similarly, from ST5 to ST6 could involve just moving a couple of existing wedges (the turbolift stations again) and then tearing out all the unnecessary carpeting.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nebusj]

Yeah, it's not exactly the same, but it's a little like calling a car a lemon. An aircraft can be that way right off the assembly line or evolve into that type of aircraft over time.

And the … I want to say Delta IV Heavy rocket … was something of a ``pad queen'', with individual rockets standing on the launch pad for a year or more before getting launched, because of the difficulty of getting things just right for launch. (Mind, whether rockets are worked on at the launchpad or in some processing facility depends on a lot of factors, not all of them necessarily strictly logical. But then reputations don't necessarily build logically either.)

 

[Greg Cox]

(With his new Enterprise-A novel about to be released, I'd love to hear a bit more about Greg's own personal interpretations on this whole subject and how it affected his writing process, if he'd be willing to share.)

Thanks for asking! In the new book, which takes place shortly after the fifth movie, I assumed that all the bugs had been worked out and the Enterprise-A was in full working order, carrying Captain Kirk and crew on various missions on behalf of Starfleet. I tried to work in most of the new features we saw in the last two TOS movies: the reception area with the old ship's wheel, the galley, the phaser fire alert, etc. but none of the glitches we saw in ST V. By the time the book takes place, Scotty has the new Enterprise running as smoothly as the new one ever did.

Until . . . .

 

[MacLeod]

Perhaps the ship like the crew was semi-retired and like others have said brought out for special/high profile missions. Kirk and his crew had saved Earth at least twice by TUC so they could keep Kirk on a short leash if they wanted to, but from a PR point of view they could use them as and when needed.

As for the equipment to catalogue gaseous anomolies, makes sense for the ship to be equiped with it, should hey happen to come across them when they were on a mission.