Taylor Swift Is Racist!

[Amaris]

Humans were making guttural sounds and putting it to rhythm and harmony long before civilization ever came into being. I don't believe in "black people music" and "white people music." Music is music, and is probably the one universal human language that breaks those barriers.

 

[sidious618]

The appropriation issue is a very problematic one and everyone seems to come at it from different angles, never quite at the same wavelength. You put ten people in a room and odds are you can get six out of the ten to agree something is racist. You probably couldn't get even two to agree whether or not something is appropriation. It obviously can be a serious issue, but it requires context and some understanding of nuance when you're dealing with art and most people aren't ready to take those things into consideration before instantly giving their thoughts- it's a side effect of social media which encourages you to react first and think later.

Or, as a fellow on my twitter feed put it, "The internet seems to be made for white people telling me who is appropriating my culture."

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Humans were making guttural sounds and putting it to rhythm and harmony long before civilization ever came into being. I don't believe in "black people music" and "white people music." Music is music, and is probably the one universal human language that breaks those barriers.

J, you are smarter than this. What you said here is basically a bunch of privilege-denying, culture-erasing bullshit.

 

[DimesDan]

I like it, I think it's a fun video and actually promoting a pretty positive message.

I'd also finding it rather amusing the accusations of racism regarding the twerking, given well, it's not just black women doing it in the video.

As they say, haters gonna hate.

Ah, I think you misunderstand. Twerking is a "black thing" and some black people get upset when non-black people do it. It's considered appropriative. Given the context of the video, as well, it could be taken as making fun of twerking.

I mean, it's really small potatoes as these things go, but I can kind of see their point.

Yes I did and that would make more sense and putting it that way, yeah, I can kinda, if I tilt my head and squint kinda see that point.

I still personally think it's a fun lil ditty.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I like it, I think it's a fun video and actually promoting a pretty positive message.

I'd also finding it rather amusing the accusations of racism regarding the twerking, given well, it's not just black women doing it in the video.

As they say, haters gonna hate.

Ah, I think you misunderstand. Twerking is a "black thing" and some black people get upset when non-black people do it. It's considered appropriative. Given the context of the video, as well, it could be taken as making fun of twerking.

I mean, it's really small potatoes as these things go, but I can kind of see their point.

Yes I did and that would make more sense and putting it that way, yeah, I can kinda, if I tilt my head and squint kinda see that point.

I still personally think it's a fun lil ditty.

I don't think the song is the issue so much as the video.

 

[DimesDan]

Ah, I think you misunderstand. Twerking is a "black thing" and some black people get upset when non-black people do it. It's considered appropriative. Given the context of the video, as well, it could be taken as making fun of twerking.

I mean, it's really small potatoes as these things go, but I can kind of see their point.

Yes I did and that would make more sense and putting it that way, yeah, I can kinda, if I tilt my head and squint kinda see that point.

I still personally think it's a fun lil ditty.

I don't think the song is the issue so much as the video.

One would imagine that is the case.

 

[Amaris]

Humans were making guttural sounds and putting it to rhythm and harmony long before civilization ever came into being. I don't believe in "black people music" and "white people music." Music is music, and is probably the one universal human language that breaks those barriers.

J, you are smarter than this. What you said here is basically a bunch of privilege-denying, culture-erasing bullshit.

I knew that was coming. I just knew it, but no, this isn't about privilege, this is about music, and before the argument begins, I'm heading it off by saying I'm not going to argue with you about it. Music is music. It's not black, or white, and anyone can make it, anyone can share it, and they can express it however they like.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Humans were making guttural sounds and putting it to rhythm and harmony long before civilization ever came into being. I don't believe in "black people music" and "white people music." Music is music, and is probably the one universal human language that breaks those barriers.

J, you are smarter than this. What you said here is basically a bunch of privilege-denying, culture-erasing bullshit.

I knew that was coming. I just knew it, but no, this isn't privilege, this is music, and before the argument begins, I'm heading it off by saying I'm not going to argue with you about it. Music is music. It's not black, or white, and anyone can make it, anyone can share it, and they can express it however they like.

That's a very, very easy thing for a white man to say.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but I suppose part of white privilege is never really having to say you're sorry, so good for you.

 

[Melakon]

Melakon's comment is a non sequitur, and yours is just... well, let's say classy.

I never claimed to have class.

 

[sidious618]

In theory, J is correct about music being universal- it's why we can listen to music with foreign lyrics and be just as moved as we are when the music is in the same language as our own.

The problem comes in with the commercial aspect of music and I don't think that point is made very well when people talk about musical appropriation. You see, if we have a famous white singer doing music that is usually done in black American communities and that white singer keeps getting cash and awards while the black singers are left in the dust then it becomes a problem. We see this quite often.

Some sort of a problem comes in when we try to decide where music fits in terms of race because what we now consider black music might not have always been black music or what we consider, say, Irish music may well have been influenced centuries ago by another group of people. Musical history is complicated, to say the least, so it can be difficult to take complete claim to any sort of music. However, the problem I mentioned in the second paragraph is where the issues come in. Appropriation would be less of a problem, or perhaps no problem, if the music didn't get more attention only when white people do it. Unfortunately, that is the case now, but it's slowly changing.

 

[Pingfah]

Music absolutely should be appropriated, ideas should be taken from other artists and other cultures and developed, that is how music evolves. That is how all art evolves. Nothing is created in a vacuum.

I don't believe that is what people are taking issue with in this case though. The question is whether this is valid appropriation for the development of art, or cheap mockery.

 

[sidious618]

Mockery of a other type of music, especially black music, is very present and is definitely a big issue. I agree that it's not happening here, though.

 

[Amaris]

In theory, J is correct about music being universal- it's why we can listen to music with foreign lyrics and be just as moved as we are when the music is in the same language as our own.

The problem comes in with the commercial aspect of music and I don't think that point is made very well when people talk about musical appropriation. You see, if we have a famous white singer doing music that is usually done in black American communities and that white singer keeps getting cash and awards while the black singers are left in the dust then it becomes a problem. We see this quite often.

Some sort of a problem comes in when we try to decide where music fits in terms of race because what we now consider black music might not have always been black music or what we consider, say, Irish music may well have been influenced centuries ago by another group of people. Musical history is complicated, to say the least, so it can be difficult to take complete claim to any sort of music. However, the problem I mentioned in the second paragraph is where the issues come in. Appropriation would be less of a problem, or perhaps no problem, if the music didn't get more attention only when white people do it. Unfortunately, that is the case now, but it's slowly changing.

Music appropriation as a form of cultural censor that ends up benefiting the thief is very wrong, I agree. I don't see music as a racial property, in and of itself, but I do chafe at the idea of one culture being repressed to the benefit of another culture, and that includes the music. Music should be shared freely, and expressed freely, regardless of race, creed, gender, or orientation. A rainbow can be beautiful without having to attach all of the meanings we humans attach to it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I don't like music.

Sure some of it's inarguably fantastic, but 99 percent of it is shit, and an even worse percentage of new stuff is whorishly bad and never should have been written or produced or fed to my ears. Fucks. I'm going to die one day and there is no way I can avoid bad music unless I only play shit I already know I like... Which I am bored of and don't need to listen to again because I know it all verbatim, which means even good music is bad eventually if you listen to it too much. If 2 minutes of music can stir up an emotional transformation in your brainchemistry then you are weak.

When I say '"they" (next) I don't mean black people, I mean assholes who might happen to be black... They don't like being patronized by skinny white princesses.

(I'm more annoyed at Taylor being a mulitmillionaire than skinny. You can stuff a multimillionaire into a car trunk and drive her to a quarry easy as any one else, but still they think that have some sort of magical immunity from being condescending twits to tired people who work hard and still can't quite make ends meet.)

Here's the counter point.

Music is poetry.

If you write (lyrics to) music then you are poet or a poetess.

It is the poets job to comment on society.

She's doing her job, and maybe it's her job to offend you, so shut the fuck and let her do her job.

Melakon's comment is a non sequitur, and yours is just... well, let's say classy.

I never claimed to have class.

Have you seen (the rest of) this movie?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN-_cZNDy0w[/yt]

 

[Robert Maxwell]

In theory, J is correct about music being universal- it's why we can listen to music with foreign lyrics and be just as moved as we are when the music is in the same language as our own.

The problem comes in with the commercial aspect of music and I don't think that point is made very well when people talk about musical appropriation. You see, if we have a famous white singer doing music that is usually done in black American communities and that white singer keeps getting cash and awards while the black singers are left in the dust then it becomes a problem. We see this quite often.

Some sort of a problem comes in when we try to decide where music fits in terms of race because what we now consider black music might not have always been black music or what we consider, say, Irish music may well have been influenced centuries ago by another group of people. Musical history is complicated, to say the least, so it can be difficult to take complete claim to any sort of music. However, the problem I mentioned in the second paragraph is where the issues come in. Appropriation would be less of a problem, or perhaps no problem, if the music didn't get more attention only when white people do it. Unfortunately, that is the case now, but it's slowly changing.

Music appropriation as a form of cultural censor that ends up benefiting the thief is very wrong, I agree. I don't see music as a racial property, in and of itself, but I do chafe at the idea of one culture being repressed to the benefit of another culture, and that includes the music. Music should be shared freely, and expressed freely, regardless of race, creed, gender, or orientation. A rainbow can be beautiful without having to attach all of the meanings we humans attach to it.

No one claimed music is a "racial property" or said you can't enjoy whatever music you want. What you said previously implied you don't think appropriation is an issue. After all, if there's no "black music" or "white music" then no one can actually "steal" (read: appropriate) it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Stop apologizing for Elvis Presley.

 

[Amaris]

In theory, J is correct about music being universal- it's why we can listen to music with foreign lyrics and be just as moved as we are when the music is in the same language as our own.

The problem comes in with the commercial aspect of music and I don't think that point is made very well when people talk about musical appropriation. You see, if we have a famous white singer doing music that is usually done in black American communities and that white singer keeps getting cash and awards while the black singers are left in the dust then it becomes a problem. We see this quite often.

Some sort of a problem comes in when we try to decide where music fits in terms of race because what we now consider black music might not have always been black music or what we consider, say, Irish music may well have been influenced centuries ago by another group of people. Musical history is complicated, to say the least, so it can be difficult to take complete claim to any sort of music. However, the problem I mentioned in the second paragraph is where the issues come in. Appropriation would be less of a problem, or perhaps no problem, if the music didn't get more attention only when white people do it. Unfortunately, that is the case now, but it's slowly changing.

Music appropriation as a form of cultural censor that ends up benefiting the thief is very wrong, I agree. I don't see music as a racial property, in and of itself, but I do chafe at the idea of one culture being repressed to the benefit of another culture, and that includes the music. Music should be shared freely, and expressed freely, regardless of race, creed, gender, or orientation. A rainbow can be beautiful without having to attach all of the meanings we humans attach to it.

No one claimed music is a "racial property" or said you can't enjoy whatever music you want. What you said previously implied you don't think appropriation is an issue. After all, if there's no "black music" or "white music" then no one can actually "steal" (read: appropriate) it.

That's what you get for jumping to conclusions before finding out my position on things.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Humans were making guttural sounds and putting it to rhythm and harmony long before civilization ever came into being. I don't believe in "black people music" and "white people music." Music is music, and is probably the one universal human language that breaks those barriers.

J, you are smarter than this. What you said here is basically a bunch of privilege-denying, culture-erasing bullshit.

I knew that was coming. I just knew it, but no, this isn't about privilege, this is about music, and before the argument begins, I'm heading it off by saying I'm not going to argue with you about it. Music is music. It's not black, or white, and anyone can make it, anyone can share it, and they can express it however they like.

Sure. But music isn't made in a void. Music is made within a cultural context. And music is for an audience. Written with an audience in mind. Either for a broad appeal--like Swift's work, or for a more select audience, like Tom Waits or Blind Lemon Jefferson.

Certainly artists can grab work from other cultures and make them their own, hopefully in new and exciting ways. But, to pull without understanding the cultural context... that's either pretty naive or self-centered.

To say it is universal, is both correct and incorrect at the same time.

 

[sidious618]

Zoom seems to have it correct.

 

[Amaris]

J, you are smarter than this. What you said here is basically a bunch of privilege-denying, culture-erasing bullshit.

I knew that was coming. I just knew it, but no, this isn't about privilege, this is about music, and before the argument begins, I'm heading it off by saying I'm not going to argue with you about it. Music is music. It's not black, or white, and anyone can make it, anyone can share it, and they can express it however they like.

Sure. But music isn't made in a void. Music is made within a cultural context. And music is for an audience. Written with an audience in mind. Either for a broad appeal--like Swift's work, or for a more select audience, like Tom Waits or Blind Lemon Jefferson.

Certainly artists can grab work from other cultures and make them their own, hopefully in new and exciting ways. But, to pull without understanding the cultural context... that's either pretty naive or self-centered.

To say it is universal, is both correct and incorrect at the same time.

Then I say we go with correct, just to be on the safe side.