When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    It might be if you truly believe in your principals. Sometimes upholding your principals/ethics etc.. can put you in a weaker position.
     
  2. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    That just makes Picard worse. Knowing he's being affect by the radiation and making the kinds of decisions he's making is just dangerous and irresponsible.


    1) Some conditions (such as the S'ona) might take to long to treat via normal exposure. Otherwise, fuck the Baku, no need to even let them know you're there at all. Set up a colony or build an orbital station.

    The biggest benefit comes from stripping the rings and using concentrated exposure.

    2) You think the space-hippies would put up with that if they found out?
     
  3. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or better yet study the radiation to figure out how to make it themselves I mean the federation did used to have the technology to make planets.

    Well seeing as they were never asked about the possibility we don't know.
     
  4. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Well, they thought they did. David sort of spilled protomatter into the matrix, so we don't know if Genesis would work as advertised or not. We know it makes short term, unstable, planets that like to go boom.

    2) This is why the movie makes no sense. There's no need to even drag anyone into this. Just build a space station, build a colony elsewhere on the planet, and get on with life.
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, unfortunately there are so many gaffes within the film itself that it's hard to have a well-founded discussion about it because so much comes down to information we're not given but realistically should have been.
     
  6. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    it's ironic since the film obviously wanted a simple "black and white" scenario for a lighter and smaller-scale movie that the premise was so messed up.

    All they had to do was change the premise to something like wanting to remove the Baku for a different reason, like to use the planet as a base for the war or something and NOT have the stakes be " medical treatment for billions".
     
  7. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hell, Picard points this out in Descent, Part 1. I know Piller was off the show at that point, but it does show the lack of familiarity he had with the characters when he wrote the movie. What we get in the movie does fit Gene's/Hollywood's bizarre "competence and pragmatism = evil" mindset though, which is really bizarre in this movie because the pragmatic admiral was going for solutions that would kill less people, while the Enterprise crew wound up causing tons of people to get hurt or die.
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^In that regard they would have been better off dropping the blood feud angle. Sure you lose the mildly happy ending but you also lose a lot of the ambiguity regarding the Son'a if there's no argument to be made that they have any right to be there.
     
  9. The Overlord

    The Overlord Captain Captain

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    Okay, then why didn't someone ask the Ba'ku if they were willing to leave? Because if they said no, they would seem like selfish jerks and if they said yes, there would be no movie.

    There is too many unexplained plot holes for this movie to work, how did the Ba'ku defeat the Son'a if they didn't believe n violence and why didn't the Son'a set up their own colony in another part of the planet after being exiled from the village? The story is so filled with holes, it doesn't work.
     
  10. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Yeppers. When you make the stake: 600 people (non native) having to move to save billions dying in a war, most people are going to side with billions. They made the number to high to even question, even the high thousands would make most people go "Hmm, yeah, I think the 600 need to move". It was the wrong plot device by a long shot.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I still think it would have been better if they had went with the planet having a valuable ore that was the basis of Federation medical technology. Which was running out due to the Feds being cut off from the worlds that supply it and high casualties. :shrug:
     
  12. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The problem with these Fountain of Youth storylines is that the heroes can never find it or never get to keep it once they discover it, since it changes things too much for future storylines. It ends up being ignored and a huge waste of time.
     
  13. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    eh, I still think that makes the decision to move them too easy.

    Anything related to medical needs that benefit billions during a war is going to take precedence.

    If it was only a small advantage like a strategically-located base, or some kind of resource to build certain weapons or something, then you could just sit back and say "not a big deal either way, let's just enjoy the show."


    As it is, at the "happy ending" all I can think of are the billions that won't get treatment, and the Son'a that are going to die.
     
  14. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    The fix was in when Rick Berman proclaimed they couldn't out-do the Borg, so they weren't going to try.
     
  15. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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  16. Captain_Q

    Captain_Q Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Just gonna say that Insurrection is my favorite Star Trek movie. *Hides under a forcefield to escape the hate.
     
  17. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, at least tell us why before the phaser barrage commences. :)
     
  18. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    interesting. Of course I've heard from fans who liked it, but I don't think I've EVER heard from one who regarded it as their favorite.
     
  19. Captain_Q

    Captain_Q Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Well Picard sings along with Data(best moment of my life), and the whole thing just feels like an episode, the way TNG used to feel. I can see the point of why some people don't like it, but I have learned to overlook the flaws in these movies and just not give a darn. Don't even get me started on the last two remakes, now those I can hate on but when I take a step back I admit that they're good movies. What I liked about Insurrection was that there wasn't a whole lot of violence, yes there's some fighting but it's not like blood and guts everywhere type of thing. It's a movie where I don't have to go shitshitshitshitshitshit someone's going to die soon! Yes there's the "needs of the many outway the needs of the few" thing, but this place had became this peoples' home even though they weren't native. I just appreciated Picard's view on the situation, as you can see in my signature one of my favorite quotes from the movie that basically sums up the point for me. As I'm typing this I realize it probably doesn't make any sense, but it's still my favorite Trek movie.
     
  20. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My perception of Insurrection never changed. I disliked it when I saw it in the theater and I'll never watch it again. It was dull and uninteresting and certainly remains so.