When did the perception of Insurrection change?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So...INS is a sequel to "The Way to Eden"?

    This would explain a great many things...
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    :lol:
     
  3. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Ugh. I thought "bonus" meant a good thing.[/QUOTE]

    Max Grodénchik's Bajoran is in the bonus scenes, not Quark's.
     
  4. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And they still managed to build their own little empire all they lost was immortality, big deal.
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder how people like Picard or Kirk would react if they were told they were no longer allowed to be explorers or chase their dreams?

    How the Ba'ku treated their own was against everything the Federation stood for. People go on about the Ba'ku's right to self-determination yet the Ba'ku didn't believe in self-determination for their own people.

    If Picard hadn't been hunting for a piece of ass, the Ba'ku would've been relocated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  6. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They had the means to look at Data's positronic brain without much effort. They have the technology, stored somewhere perhaps.

    And it's explained that the Son'a didn't want to live in the nebula (that no one else can enter without complications), they wanted to be part of the action. The Baku liked the place because it was protected by the nebula, the Son'a didn't. The Son'a only wanted the radiation. They wanted to have the cake and eat it too, so to speak.

    Philosophies and intentions are not plot holes just because you don't agree with them. ;)

    And their infertility was their own fault. They didn't want to age, so they destroyed their bodies with genetic manipulation. And then they wanted to force the Baku off the planet.

    All problems in this film are caused by the Son'a desperately pursuing eternal life, at all costs. First they destroyed themselves as a race with their genetic manipulation, then they wanted to harm the others in order to get that metaphasic radiation.
     
  7. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    if it's no big deal then it's no big deal for the Baku to be removed, right? :)

    after all, forced relocation for the Baku which costs them their immortality is just poetic justice for what happened to the Son'a right?



    oh, of course not. Because the Baku are pretty White people.
     
  8. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    so the Baku are colossal hypocrites who were fine with using advanced technology for violence if it helped to preserve their comfortable way of life?


    that doesn't make them look like hypocrites at all.:rolleyes:
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    It would've been interesting to see how people reacted had the situation been reversed. That the ugly people were trying to defend their homes from the pretty white people.
     
  10. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    have you seen Redlettermedia or TVtropes' take on INS?

    They bring up the fact that Picard reverses his position from "journey's end," and they point out that the writing and juxtaposition of the two makes it look(rather unfortunately for the character) like Picard did so because in THAT case it was non-Whites being removed, whereas in THIS case it was Whites being removed.


    And of course in "journey's end" there was no hot White woman for Picard to rescue.:lol:
     
  11. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Even SFDebris brings up the whole white people thing (he goes even further, calling them elves). He doesn't bring up the race issue with the relocation, but does call out Picard's hypocrisy regarding the Maquis though.
     
  12. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah thats bullshit.

    1) The Maquis colonies were federation colonies, the Ba'ku were not a federation planet.

    2) Everyone seems to forget that when the colonists weren't going along with the move Picard tried to get his bosses to call it off.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Then they threatened his command and he decided to play ball. So I guess he only stands by his convictions when a piece of ass is involved?
     
  14. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I for one would still be siding with the people who were trying to defend their homes.

    But then again I don't imperialism.
     
  15. Vasquez Rocks

    Vasquez Rocks Commodore Commodore

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    Don't forget that Picard's actions, hormones and maybe even his judgement are all being affected from being on the planet. He might have reacted differently if it wasn't for that. Data even comments in the film about "certain rebellious instincts common to youth" may come out. Worf's "aggressive tendancies" for instance. None of the crew are really 100% themselves in this movie because of the metaphasic radiation.
     
  16. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    And according to Picard, so long as you wear the uniform you shut up and do what you're told.
     
  17. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A) it was Wesley :p
    B) the situation isn't really comparable because it was to prevent a war and not to score a luxury resource
    C) meeting Kirk, fighting the Borg against orders and fighting a bloody war against the Dominion surely changed his point of view.
    Heck, the events of that very episode might have changed his opinion.

    Wesley is the hero of that episode, not Picard.



    Did you agree with Picard or with Wesley when watching the episode? And did you agree with Dougherty or Picard when watching Insurrection?
     
  18. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    reason 1) is rather a legalistic distinction not an ethical one, and I don't think it's the basis on which Picard makes his stand. He talks about "forced relocation" and its effects, and in "journey's end" it was DEFINITELY forced relocation of a culture.
     
  19. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    A resource that could cure billions suffering from a war is not a luxury resource. And it's certainly not something you put the sentiment and feelings of 600 over.
     
  20. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Again, the film does not state the radiation won't be used. The only thing the film shows is that the Ba'ku are not killed because of greed.

    The Federation can get all those wounded to the other side of the planet for shore leave.
     

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