StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by KaineMorrison, Jul 10, 2014.

  1. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    People only think Jellico is an asshole because he's not Picard. Taken strictly on his own, Jellico is a good character, not an asshole, and a fine captain. But nobody ever gives him any slack, because how dare he replace Jean-Luc "can't do anything wrong" Picard? :rolleyes:

    Which is exactly what any decent military commander is supposed to do.

    Why should they thank him? That's not their job. Their job is to do what he says. He's not in this to be thanked...he's there to do a job. And he did.
     
  2. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Jellico is a military commander in a series we are use to not seeing taken as a military show. The USS Enterprise is not run like a military ship all that much. Starfleet is seen though the USS Enterprise at this point by the audience. So when we get actual officers that act in an actual military way, like Jellico and Nechayev, we are thrown off by what we think of Starfleet.
     
  3. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Why the eyeroll? Ever had a boss leave that you got along well with, replaced with someone you couldn't stand? I liked the Picard/Jellico switcheroo because it allowed the cast to act like actual people.
     
  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I wasn't arguing that the 20th century characters weren't stereotypes, but if they had been just "normal" people, the 24th century people would have acted the same way toward them (or at least as written in that particular episode).
     
  5. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sometimes, yes, but the boss is the boss. :shrug:
     
  6. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He was there to do a job and he did it, but he was still a jerk in the process. So the lack of any farewells from the crew indicates that maybe they didn't like the guy. Or they respected what he accomplished but still wanted to stay as far away from him as possible. Good captain but still a pain.
     
  7. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm trying to decide if Adm. Mark Jameson was more a fool than an asshole.
     
  8. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    ^"Poorly-acted scenery chewer" fits the bill for me.

    I can understand the contrarian love for Jellico somewhat, but I don't buy Nechayev as authentically military. She used to strut around and pose like she expected people to take her picture when she walked into a room.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "If the crew doesn't hate the XO, he's not doing his job." - Saul Tigh :evil:

    You say that like it's a bad thing...
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  10. Salinga

    Salinga Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    When I look into the news today and the history of mankind up until today, I share the contempt against 21st century people and what came before. I actually would be much less diplomatic than Picard & Co against them.

    Culturally mankind is to 99% still "crap" and at least mentally living in caves (even if they handle a modern smartphone they are still cavemen by heart). The tendency to declare narcissism and psychopathy as a sign of a strong character (because this mindset enables best to fight for personal interests against other interests) is still too strong in modern culture.

    If I would live in the 24th century, I would look at todays culture (and the human beeings representing it) in the same negative way, probably even much more negative than the fictual characters of TNG.
     
  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Whatever you may think of people like Offenhouse, or anyone who lived in the 20th and 21st centuries, we should always treat people with some form of respect. You can treat people civilly even if you don't agree with their positions or actions. Nothing justifies arrogance and condescension.

    Picard, by acting the way he did towards those people, showed that he is no better than he accused them of being.
     
  12. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I hated the way the Enterprise crew was depicted in season 1.

    In Lonely Among Us, there was clearly someone killing members of the crew, and Picard/Riker immediately dismiss the crew, saying it had to be an alien, though figured the two alien races onboard probably wouldn't have done it. Why so quick to dismiss ONE THOUSAND possible suspects, some of whom aren't even Starfleet officers?

    Later in The Neutral Zone, Offenhouse is able to go where he pleases (including the bridge), and throws that fact back at Picard. Picard's response is that people in the 24th century don't need security like that because they know not to go where they aren't permitted. Puh-lease.

    In another one of the episodes, Riker was bewildered by the idea of war, saying he had once heard of it, or something. The naivety the crew was forced to spew out was painful in the early season.
     
  13. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^
    I also hated the way the crew acted in other seasons toward Ensign Ro and Ensign Barclay....
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I didn't particuarly hate the way they treated Ro, because of, well, her getting 8 people killed on an away mission and all that. She was rude and obnoxious towards everyone. And as a junior officer, she kind of needed to be put in her place.

    Barclay, OTOH, was wide-eyed and innocent, and clearly did not deserve the treatment he got.
     
  15. trekshark

    trekshark Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Barclay especially didn't deserve to get mocked by Wesley who would have been a nobody on that ship if Picard hadn't had a secret crush on his mom and felt guilty for sending his dad to his death
     
  16. Disco

    Disco Commodore Commodore

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    Jellico was an asshole. No man management skills, authoritarian leadership, no attempt to work with the crew or earn their respect. I've never served in the military but surely military officers still listen to their subordinates views and suggestions and don't come into post and change everything?
     
  17. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agreed...
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't agree. Jellico knew exactly what he was doing, he was an expert at dealing with Cardassians, and he simply DID NOT HAVE TIME to get to be the crew's friend.

    Let me put it another way: Jellico may actually have been an ass, but if he was, he was the right kind; he was entitled to be one. He used it to his advantage. It made him a capable and efficient commander. He was not rude or vindictive - yes, he was authoritarian, but that's what a captain is SUPPOSED to be! Ro, on the other hand, was a jackass simply because it was her personality. I am not being sexist here - I'll happily sing the praises of, say, Admiral Nechayev. But there we are. :shrug:

    I stand by my suspicion that the reason people don't like Jellico is simply because he's an outsider. They dislike him because he isn't Picard. (In the same way that, for example, on Firefly the Alliance *seems* like some kind of fascist dictatorship, even though they aren't, just because they aren't Malcolm and his merry bunch of rebels.) Everyone's used to Picard, who is so open and personable with the crew. Well, not everyone's like that. Given time, Jellico might have bonded with his people, but there was a situation brewing with the Cardassians. He had to set things right, and do it fast. His actions after taking command may have seemed harsh, but they were needed.

    Although it would definitely have helped if we had seen what the environment on the Cairo was like. People who were used to serving under Jellico also should have gotten a voice. Pity there wasn't time.

    In the end: Jellico does not have to earn the crew's respect; they have to earn his. That's what military discipline is all about.
     
  19. Richard Baker

    Richard Baker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Jellico served as a dramatic contrast to Picard- a different style of command. It was actually refreshing to see someone in the center chair who commanded a ship in a more military style (Picard in 'Yesterday's Enterprise' was similar in some aspects).
     
  20. Disco

    Disco Commodore Commodore

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    I think where I disagree is your point that what Jellico was doing was needed. the Enterprise was one of the most advanced ships staffed by some of the best crew in the fleet who were battle hardened not just explorers so why would Jellico need to change so many things?

    A captain has to lead, manage and direct but he does not need to be authoritarian.

    I felt his command style was not required and it made him seem like he was an ass.