Orci strikes back

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Mountie1988, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    There in lays the problem: "We want something original and new!...you bastards, you changed Star Trek! Ruined forever! Canon Violation! Canon Violation!"

    Imagine the shitstorm had they made Kirk or Spock a woman. Changed Kirk's race, made him black or middle eastern. Or went the Dragnet route and made the crew the laughing stock of the Starfleet.

    The reboots are probably the truest "sequels" to TOS in terms of tone, pacing, and even story that any of the movies has been. The new movies are a respectful retelling of Star Trek. Not the Star Trek Franchise, but the series Star Trek--TNG and latter day Rodemberry revisionism on what "Star Trek Is..." need not apply.
     
  2. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Personally I would have liked that but I realise that Star Trek TOS is so iconic that you really can't fool around with the characters for the majority of casual and hard-core fans. Its a shame.

    If VOY hadn't had a female captain then I think it would have been a bold correct move to make Kirk female but the female captains been done, so has the female first officer. I am not saying there's not room for more female charcters in important positions but not at the expense of the known TOS characters.

    I know nuBSG did it but frankly original BSG wasn't nearly as popular as Star Trek.

    TAS made some characters alien but removed poor Chekov from the scene. So it probaly was GRS intention to have more aliens on board if theyt could do it inexpensively. The nuMovies have alien extras and Keenser. Its difficult to include more aliens at the expense of the main crew. Perhaps one of the Caitain twins can pop aboard as Uhura's beta shift replacement.:)
     
  3. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Original and new" doesn't mean politically correct theatrics such as making Kirk black or a woman. It means original story concepts, new ideas for what to do with the characters we already know. Not racebending ( sexbending? ) as a substitute for originality of plot.
     
  4. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Who said it was? What if an actress or actor of a different race was simply the best person for the role? You going to sit there and say that even with a homerun script and stellar cast, the there wouldn't be a monsoon of Trek-rage if Kirk is anything but a white boy from Iowa.

    Please, the zealots in our fandom have confused later day (TNG+) Trek with Star Trek (the series) to the point that they can't even see TOS for what it was--they didn't drink the Kool-aid, they guzzled it, speedballed it into their eyes, and then bathed in it. When they say new and original, the mean the same old stories but with flashier special effects.
     
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That already happened. John Cho was cast as Sulu despite not being Japanese.
     
  6. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, they should've just made Kirk Gay, so, in Gamesters... he would be "helping" Sean, or it could've been Eddie Keeler he threw under the truck in City on the Edge of Forever :alienblush:
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder, would Eddie Keeler have the same soft focus camera work on his close ups?
     
  8. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    Didn't they already make Kirk gay in the ''Shore Leave'' teaser? Kink in my back. I'll bet....:borg:

    It sounds like SeerSGB declared STID's overall story superior to TWOK. They're both good films, but one is the other's wellspring.....
     
  9. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    About on the same level. The detractors like to make it sound like STID is a shot for shot redo of TWOK, when it's not. Till the last act STID.-Khan aside--had very little in common with TWOK. And even then, the actual similarity is paper thin save for one scene.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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  11. ComicGuy89

    ComicGuy89 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree. For me, TNG created a new era of Star Trek fans. TNG and all shows since then (including Enterprise) had a certain style and aesthetic that was very much different from that of TOS. This contrast is remarkably visible in Generations, where the style shifted dramatically between the scenes with the Enterprise-B and the later Enterprise-D scenes.

    I think the Abrams movies have created another era of fans, but there's a reason you usually see these newer fans discover classic Trek by watching TOS. In my opinion, that's because the Abrams fans really hearken back to what TOS was all about: fun, swashbuckling adventure among a group of close-knit team members.

    That's not to say one is more "Star Trek" than the other, what I am simply saying is that TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and the reboot movies are all Star Trek in their own unique ways, and that the reboot evokes TOS more strongly while the other post-TNG shows evoked TNG more.
     
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Japanese is a race?

    That a bit like saying Pegg and Doohan were different races than Scotty. Or Nichols is a different race than Uhura since Uhura speaks Swahili ( a language common in East Africa) while Nichols ancestry is presumably West African.

    Sulu isn't even a Japanese name. And apparently some of his ancestors lived in San Francisco's Chinatown during the 20th Century.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  13. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Of course. But who cares?

    I completely agree with this, and my hope for the future of Trek is that the influence of the later spinoffs wanes and eventually disappears completely.

    I want a good Star Trek reboot that really makes me feel like I'm in the future, that Spock is really an alien, and that the galaxy is a great big question mark. Jettison most of the established Trek aliens (especially all of the TNG-era aliens) and any other facts taken for granted which came later than TOS. When does Trek take place? The 23rd Century? Nope, not according to TOS. Spock should appear completely different from the way he did in TOS, making him as unfamiliar and alien as Nimoy's Spock was before we got to know him back in the day.

    One can dream...
    No, for me what was jarring is that the ENT-B scenes were written with the TNG-aesthetic and style in mind. Scotty was trying to mouth Berman-Trek technobabble, and it was embarrassing. It didn't feel like TOS at all. It felt less like TOS than the Abrams films did, IMO.
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know if I agree with this or not. But I know it will never happen. Spock's look is one of those things that are intertwined with Star Trek and is unlikely to ever change.
     
  15. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    George Takei is Japanese. Sulu is Chinese.
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Spock's look was kind of typically alien, so I wouldn't call it "unfamiliar". Pointed ears, greenish skin and arched eyebrows were stereotypical even in the 60s.
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Other than being "pan-Asian", did they ever tell us who he was descended from? We know he was born in San Francisco, but other than that I thought his ancestry was a blank slate.
     
  18. ComicGuy89

    ComicGuy89 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    They did make the effort to always point out that he looked like a demon too. His look was definitely a familiar one, if not exactly a comfortable one.
     
  19. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    From the article:
    So Abrams must out of necessity play it safe, give us films with pat answers and trite conclusions to all the issues presented? What's preventing Abrams from doing better?
     
  20. ComicGuy89

    ComicGuy89 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    "Better" is subjective. A film can be better by delving into social issues and philosophy, but it can also be better by focusing instead on characterization, action and drama. It can be better in a lot of ways.

    Of course you could argue a good film could focus on all these things, but I guess they just wanted to focus on one thing.
     

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