Orci strikes back

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Mountie1988, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    That would be a valid point (well, not really, since STiD's based on TOS anyway, so it's not a fair comparison to bring up in the first place) if the writer of the article were comparing it to a single previous outing of Trek and not the entirety of the franchise that came before it.

    It would be nice if people actually read what was originally said in the article and my response to it before quoting me to argue a point that wasn't even in contention.
     
  2. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    Reading this thread, I just got the image a Twilight Zone episode where the original cast is stuck forever in their roles but with new writing every week that is different, yet with all the same tempos, beats, music, plot patterns and the same occasional guests reappearing as different characters with bad makeup. It would be be like TNG's The Royale with some elements of Woody Allen's The Purple Rose of Cairo and Helen Reddy's Angie Baby thrown in. In the end as the camera pulls back it turns out the fans have wished a spell upon the cast to keep them bottled up in their fantasies forever.
     
  3. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    You're right. The writers just came up with the idea of a top secret Starfleet organization known as Section 31 all on their own and not from any other Star Trek series. You think they also came up with the idea of Klingons having ridged foreheads, having a strong sense of honor and carry bat'leths?
     
  4. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    By bringing back TOS, they brought back the 60s role models, miniskirts and racial issues. Modern Trek had already developed far beyond that, with a black and female Captain. Next step should have been a homosexual character, for example. Spock and Uhura kissing a controversy? How about the male communications officer kissing and comforting the male first officer? That's the controversy Trek should be aiming for.
     
  5. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Thank you.
     
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    When you're ready to have an honest discussion with me on the points I was actually addressing and not a strawman argument with your imaginary friend, here's my original post:

    http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=8635408&postcount=345

    You'll notice there's no discussion of Section 31, Klingons, Deep Space Nine or anything else you've decided to annoyingly inject into this conversation for some reason. There was a disagreement with the author of the article that said:

    "Fans would have loved to have heard an honest explanation for why Khan was in the movie at all, or why the Enterprise was so much whiter and more male than it's ever been before (although there were some weird aliens so maybe that helps?)"

    I also wasn't discussing the interchangeability of Quinto and Cumberbatch as Spock, how Orci feels about race/gender bending, or anything else people have bizarrely tried to argue with me about in response to that post even though I didn't bring those things up. Maybe next time we can discuss the impact of Barney the Purple Dinosaur on Star Trek too, since that's about as relevant to what I said as any of these other things. You want to talk about those things, that's fine, start a discussion. Just don't pretend that it's representative of or a rebuttal to anything that I was saying, because it's not.
     
  7. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    I thought I was. You said,

    "I was disagreeing with the premise in the article that STiD is "much whiter and more male" than any Trek has been in the past."

    So "ANY TREK" doesn't mean any trek? Because by definition, any trek can be any trek, like Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, the Animated Series, The Next Generation and even the movies. If you were just talking about in context of TOS, why didn't you just say so?

    I also think it's odd how you dismiss my Deep Space Nine point on the grounds that STID is based on TOS, even though Section 31, a top secret Starfleet Organization is something that was created for Deep Space Nine. So I would say that dismissing elements from other Star Trek series only on the grounds that STID is based on TOS is disingenuous.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Since they were making a movie based on the TOS characters, I'm not sure it is a fair comparison.

    But then, you have a black comm officer, Asian helmsman, Russian navigator, a Vulcan-Human science officer and a Scottish chief engineer. Then you had two Americans, Kirk and McCoy. Plus, you had a female first officer in the original pilot. Not sure any of the other series were any better at diversity than TOS.

    In Modern Trek, humanity was always right. Out spreading the gospel of how much more evolved they were when compared to everyone else. :lol:
     
  9. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    You're reading that backwards. in order to prove the accuracy of "Whiter than any Trek before", you have to show all Trek before was less white.
     
  10. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Well, that wasn't too hard to understand. :P
     
  11. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Apples and oranges, really. Wanting something new arguably translates to wanting original adventures, not just rehashing things we've seen before, etc. I would assume that changing the races of canon characters is not what people are really looking for if they say they "want something new". Especially given the great pains taken four years ago to assert that the Abramsverse branches from the Prime timeline in 2233 and isn't just an "anything goes" reboot. If fans say they want something new, but they get a remix of Trek's greatest hits except now Khan is a white Brit, oh and here's yet another big bad villain ship, some dissatisfaction is understandable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  12. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    If you would cease your relentless shifting of goalposts for one moment and refer to the article which Locutus was addressing in this post, you'll see that Locutus misspoke. Rather than the "whiter and more male than any Trek" to which you've latched on, the article's writer in fact stated:
    The Enterprise, not Trek taken as a whole. That's what's in the article, and it was to that that Locutus was referring in his original post in this chain.

    Speak to that subject, if you will, rather than keying off a cherry-pick in order to climb up on your soapbox and deliver the same harangues you've already voiced many times before.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  13. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Now THAT is a threat a trekkie like me can understand. Though if you imply that I smoke crack, I won't be happy.
     
  15. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You're right. One would be hard-pressed to misunderstand your above point. How very polite.
     
  16. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    No, it wasn't. Which is why it's so mystifying you appeared to be disputing LocutusOfBored's statement that it was a false statement, by, pointing at just DS9 being less "white" then STiD
     
  17. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Orci couldn't win if he tried--not with the haters. He could have been a sweet as southern tea them and he'd still been called a bastard for it.

    Nope, never talk smack behind anyone's back. More fun to tell them to their face.
     
  18. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Warning for trolling. Comments to PM.
     
  19. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And again, I thought the consensus was that the haters are in the minority and that it doesn't matter what they think.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But they're still making Star Trek. In one of the special features Abrams says they could have changed a great deal, but then they wouldn't be making Star Trek.