Orci strikes back

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Mountie1988, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    How long you been in this fandom? Or any fandom? People are going to call people on hypocrisy. In short: Bring the "A" game. Got an opinion? Great. Start citing how "X" is worse that "Y" cause "Y" is a superior product, you better be willing to back it up and then brace to get it torn down and torched.

    A lot of the "issues" people bitch about with the Abrams films are standard fare in Trek, but some people shift the goal posts in order to make it look like the Abrams films are somehow worse when they do it than all the other times when it's been done in the franchise.

    The hardest critics on Trek are the people that love it but can still see the warts.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You list three movies but list nothing of why you actually disliked it or what the three movies you list prove.

    I like the point made that Spock simply didn't know who he could trust on Earth.
     
  3. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If someone is posting their opinion on some important political issue like universal health care or gay marriage I would agree with you. I do not agree with you when it comes to frivolous things such as films. I was talking to a Star Trek fan at work a few weeks ago and he mentioned that Deep Space Nine was the worst Star Trek series without backing up his opinion. Should I have aggressively interrogated him and forced him to compare everything he didn't like to the other series? Should I then have "torn down and torched" his argument if his responses didn't satisfy me? Of course not, so why should we behave any differently on these forums?
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No.

    But if someone is unable to share details on why they think the way they think, I usually disregard the opinion entirely.
     
  5. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Casual conversation is one thing. The boards are discussion based. Citing examples and whatnot certainly helps whatever position you hold. Just sayin'...
     
  6. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Public forums, you don't get to say that everyone has to play the game your way. If you don't want to back up your opinion one can force you. However, people have the equal right to tear into it, and you can't force them to not to do so. When you slam something for something the rest of the franchise has done for decades, people are going to call BS and they're going to counter it and push for you to back your opinion.

    You set the level of engagement, the same as the rest of us do. If you don't like defending your opinion, then don't.
     
  7. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I loved several parts of Star Trek Into Darkness very much. But I refuse to be specific about why I loved them or what they were.
     
  8. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    And...?
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Strong building blocks for a great discussion! :p
     
  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, this is a discussion board. If you post something, be it negative or positive, it will be discussed. Participation in that discussion is up to you.
     
  11. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    If Gene were alive, he would mandate that in the future humanity no longer needs 'discussions'. It would be as unnecessary as gold, and the Columbia House Record and Tape Club.
     
  12. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Also, everyone would be naked.
     
  13. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Well, that goes without saying.

    Although I do miss being able to get a hundred albums for a nickel...
     
  14. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Orci should have to put up with some criticism after all he can dish it out. But he doesn't have to put up with verbal abuse or personal attacks if thats what was happening.
    he should be as protected from personal attacks as we are here on this or any other well moderated board.

    A celebrity in my country nearly took desperate measures when she was constantly attacked on her (I think) twitter account. People were telling her to kill herself and to die when she hadn't done anything criminally or morally wrong. Just (perhaps foolishly) revealed too much of her inner self.

    And now Orci doesn't have to put up with it as he is no longer interacting with the fans. Who suffers now - not him. The people who were enjoying the tweets and posts.
     
  15. Yorkshire Niner

    Yorkshire Niner Captain Captain

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    Conscientious objector?

    Why? Range, variety and depth are not necessarily negative things for a fictional universe.
     
  16. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Eventually this is what always happens. The last resort when someone doesn't like a piece of entertainment is dissecting that opinion down to the tiniest level. It's an attempt of turning an opinion into something objective, which is a fallacy in itself.

    Nitpicks are a symptom, not the cause, guys. When you see a movie, you either like the overall package or you dislike it.

    So that whole "you must hold everything to the same standard" is absolute bullshit. Because there is no standard. The standard is at best "I liked it, so I overlook some flaws here and there" and "I disliked it, so I see flaws everywhere."

    So stop that objectively scrutinizing bullshit. If that's your last straw in an argument to "defend" a film, just stop it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then, perhaps, it would be a good idea to quit dealing bullshit?
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's a point where you move so far away from the core of a work that you lose what made it special to begin with.
     
  19. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well...YEAH, that's why there would be no need for discussion ;)
     
  20. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    I nitpick and dissect stuff even if I like it. I want to know why I liked it. Personally, if my response is as simplistic as "I liked it" or "I don't like it", then I view that as a sign of a very shallow product. It has to hold up beyond the paint--to use a term--and have some substance. So if I like it, I'm going to go deeper into the "why" is to see if I really do like it or if I'm just impressed with the paint job.

    And, yes, I hold all products to the same standard. Be it Star Trek, be it Star wars, be it Transformers, be it Macross. If the original/older stuff gets a pass on some of the idiocy that afflicts them, the newer stuff gets a pass on the same failings.