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Your postmortem thoughts on DISCO

TheFlutteringHorde said:
I thought Season 1 got off to a bad star, just to much pointless grim darkness for me. I think this peaked around The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry, which I would also put as my least favorite episode of the series. It got better around Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad and I think stayed pretty enjoyable from there on out. I felt like it made more appropriate use of violence and having our characters being tested by what they're going through much better in the Mirror Universe stuff than earlier. The ending felt a little rushed but it was mostly fine.

Season 2 is probably my favorite season of the show. I like the mystery, I like all the new characters introduced, I liked the big spaceship battle at the end, and I overall had a really good time.

Season 3 was a bit of a miss for me. I think of all of them this is the one that would have benefited most from the old 20+ episode seasons. They're trying to do too much and some of it was really good, but it never really came together. I really like Terra Firma I/II but in the grander context of the stuff around the Emerald Chain and the Burn I think it was maybe a mistake to heavily commit two episodes to Georgiou's story.

Season 4 had a weak start for me, but got significantly better as it went along. The scenes of Tarka's backstory in the Galactic Barrier are some of the best I think I've seen Trek period, it might be my favorite episode of the series just for that.

Season 5 was consistently enjoyable, I liked the way it balanced connecting back to older works and building out the 32nd Century setting.

Overall I think Discovery did a fine job, but had one of the most drastic changes I've seen in spirit and tone of a tv series. It went from incredibly dark and violent at the beginning to extremely optimistic and wearing its heart on its sleeve by the end.

The costuming and makeup are the best Trek's ever made. I didn't care for the Season 1 uniforms or the Klingon look but so much work went into every detail of all of it, and the ability to have a character like Saru with so much screentime is amazing.

I'd probably put it above The Animated Series, Enterprise, Picard, and Voyager in my personal rankings.
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I thought season 1 of DSC was an immediate success. It didn't suffer from the usual teething period, and by mid-season, when it took a break it reached a fever pitch of buzz.

After that it made dozens of best of year lists, and awards and so on. It was the first real season 1 franchise triumph since the 60s!
 
I finally got around to watching season 5. It was decent but pretty forgettable; Face the Strange was the only outstanding episode.

Overall, it's probably my third favourite Trek series behind DS9 and TOS. It does frustrate me though because the first two seasons were so good (aside from the inability to finish season arcs effectively), but it never reached those heights again.
 
I tried so hard to like DISCO. There are things that I like about it. I generally like the cast, most of the characters, the production values, and some of the visual aesthetics. Most of the posts on this forum has explained the problems with the show better than I can. However, I would just add that the problems that I had with Discovery were present in the other modern ST shows to one degree or another.

I think the problems lie fundamentally with a studio that seems to want Trek to be more of a quippy sci fi action series that generally focuses on melodrama rather than good sci fi storytelling. Paramount seems so desperate to broaden the appeal of ST that they forgot the things that people liked about it in the first place. (looking at you, Section 31). To aid in this venture, they contracted Secret Hideout to remake the franchise into its present form.

The modern form of Star Trek seems to have two modes. In the first mode, what I think of as Star Trek Dystopia mode, they try to make something new and different, dark and edgy. Lots of space battles, morally ambiguous characters, etc. DISCO S1 and the first two seasons of Picard fall into this first mode. It seems that this is what they really want to produce, the problem is that most of the audience rejected or tuned out of this conception of Trek.

When their new ideas don't work they shift into Trek Nostalgia mode. Lower Decks, Picard S3, etc. This is where they try to remind audiences what they like about the franchise in the most superficial ways possible. It seems that this mode works better for the masses and that is fine, but I wonder how long the franchise can run on the recycled fumes of its past glory.

I think the two modes kind of evolved with Discovery, where they tried to balance the unpopular new tone with classic characters in the second season and then apparently determined that the problem was that the show was not different enough so they moved it into the 29th century where the show floundered for a few seasons without finding a large enough audience to keep it going.

To me, Paramount screwed up by tossing decades of worldbuilding out the window in favor of their new conception. Continuity aside, New Trek does not have any of the feel of classic Trek. I think they would have been better served to introduce the Star Trek that people were familiar with and then gradually modernize the franchise while, hopefully, bringing along old fans and creating new ones. I just dont think either Paramount nor Secret Hideout were up to the task.

To close, I am happy for anybody who likes Discovery or any of the rest of the modern franchise. I just think it could and should have been better that what they served us by and large. Whoever buys out Paramount will face some tough choices concerning the future of the franchise. My hope is that they try to learn from the mistakes and come up with some great Trek that can get the franchise back on track.
 
I gave the Klingon arc a second look. After DIS as a whole was described to as ENT with the training wheels off.
  • There is nothing to suggest that the first nine episodes does not take place in the Kelvinverse. At all. If any writer wants to suggest as much in a future Trek production, they could.
  • The Klingon arc is not that bad. Skip the mirror universe episodes, and add the S2 premiere “Brother” and the eps “The Broken Circle” and “Under The Cloak of War” from SNW for post war followup, and you can see that there is some scale here with the whole arc. All twelve episodes of the arc could have been a whole film quadrilogy.
  • The issue I have with DIS upon re-watching is the writing with Saru, who does not seem to understand how certain tech on the ship works. Its written in a way that you cannot excuse Disco’s incongruency with TOS (ex. beaming through shields) as solely an experimental ship. And in the case of the Shenzhou (not able to beaming anything unless organic and apparently alive, even though their cloths and phasers are inorganic and very much not alive)…it’s just as frustrating now as it was then. The only difference is that I can see how Saru is unlikable now. Saru’s characterization in the Klingon arc make him feel like a politician. He’s not a character I can root for.
  • I’ve softened on the characterization of Stamets in the first season. Since he fits in with the culture of the ship. And his character changes as the ship’s culture changes whenever they get a new captain.
 
Never watched a single episode after S2 ended, and I only watched S2 for the Pike / Spock elements of it. Didn't miss it, have not been even slightly tempted to go back and watch it since. What I did watch was terribly flawed, at times infantile in its presentation of what were supposed to be functional adults, and just didn't feel like Trek to me. Spore drive, uniforms, jacked-up Klingons, nu-Trek look, all bad.

Solid F.
 
FederationHistorian said:
  • There is nothing to suggest that the first nine episodes does not take place in the Kelvinverse. At all. If any writer wants to suggest as much in a future Trek production, they could.
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Nothing, really? Not that Kelvin Klingons all wore helmets, or Sarek looking different, or the ships not looking like the shiny hot-rod Kelvin ships? The inconsistencies between DIS and Kelvin are as big as the differences between DIS and TOS.
 
I'm definitely a completist when it comes to Star Trek, and as someone else said, I love even the bad stuff ... to some extent, some more than other.

DSC is currently the Star Trek show I like least. Unlike with most other ST shows, I've hardly had the urge to rewatch it, so far (just watched season 1 for a 2nd time with a friend). DSC has a couple of elements I like, and quite a few I dislike (and agree that maybe it's about a 30% like/70% dislike ratio), but I applaud the series for trying many new things after the Berman-era formula, even though for me personally, many of these new things don't work.

Anyway, I felt it was time to give the show another try, with some distance, and started a rewatch, beginning with season 2. I've progressed up to season 4, episode 5 by now.

I notice I still don't like what I didn't like during the first watching: Most of all, the melodrama. For my taste, especially Burnham cries way too often, or at least appears like she's about to cry, and way too much time, especially in the later seasons, is spent on discussing the feelings of all people in detail. The characters just don't appear like stable, mature adults, but it's sometimes bordering on group therapy.

Maybe especially because of that, the characters don't hit my nerve. I don't really care about them, although I find Saru a tad more interesting the second time I watch the show. But Burnham annoys me, and that's not a good sign, because she's clearly the lead of the show.

I still can't stand mirror Georgiou, and it just seems wrong to me that they turn her and Section 31 into something that's supposed to be "cool". It just totally flies in the face of previous Star Trek show's moral compass. I don't think there was any sufficient redemption arc for mirror Georgiou that would justify painting her as a positive or "cool" character, rather than a villain, or that would entitle her to that goodbye dinner of the rest of the crew.

Way too often, I feel they talk about feelings, discuss them, display them, without really giving the viewer reason to really feel with the characters. Like when they had the funeral for Airiam... it's so over-the-top emotional and melodramatic, which appeared just totally misplaced to me, because I had no emotional attachment to that character whatsoever, because she had had half a dozen lines, most of them just "aye sir!", less than, say, Uhura on TOS -- so why should I care? What was this subplot even supposed to mean?

But, on the plus side, the technical side of the show is pretty good, the f/x is amazing and the pacing fast, most of the time ... so in its best moments, I can enjoy the show much like I enjoy the Abrams movies: When I switch off the brain, and am just looking for eye candy popcorn entertainment, it kind of works. At least as long as I can look beyond the boring or even annoying character melodrama, that is.

If the show manages to attract new audiences to Star Trek, or address younger viewers and/or the fans of the Abrams movies, that's fine, and the show serves its purpose. But it's unlikely I will develop a kind of attachment to the characters.

Although I'd say, never say never, after all, I now enjoy VOY much more than I did in the 90s.
 
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donners22 said:
I finally got around to watching season 5. It was decent but pretty forgettable; Face the Strange was the only outstanding episode.

Overall, it's probably my third favourite Trek series behind DS9 and TOS. It does frustrate me though because the first two seasons were so good (aside from the inability to finish season arcs effectively), but it never reached those heights again.
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Do you like DISCO more than TNG?
 
My take on Discovery almost one year later from my favorite season to my least favorite:
  • I love the first season, warts-and-all.
  • I'm impressed by the fourth season, and unlike others, I don't mind the slow pace.
  • The fifth season was a very fun way to kill time and felt like a nice distraction from Real Life.
  • Even though I can see where the cracks were papered over, I enjoy the second season.
  • I wanted to like the third season more than I did (I still liked it, I just wish I liked it more), it has some things I don't agree with, but nice to finally see The Future.
As far as where the characters ended up, while I would've liked to have seen more, when I think about it:
  • We know things work out well for Burnham. She gets married with Book, they have a son, and she eventually becomes an Admiral.
  • Saru's married to T'Rina and I assume he goes on to have a successful career as an Ambassador.
  • Tilly's going to have long, tenured career at Starfleet Academy. Some of which we'll see in SFA.
  • Stamets' life work with the Spore Drive has been shelved, but I'm sure he'll land on his feet and find out what to do next.
  • Culber has worked out his inner demons, gives advice and counseling to others, and his life seems to be set.
  • Adira's young and has their whole life ahead of themself.
  • We'll get to see Vance and Reno in Starfleet Academy, just like Tilly.
  • The mysteriousness behind Kovich was unveiled.
  • Georgiou got her send-off two seasons earlier.
  • Na'an will keep doing her thing in Starfleet Security.
  • Nilsson's on the Voyager-J. In my head-canon, she wants Detmer and Owosekun to join her.
  • With Detmer, Owosekun, Nilsson, and Bryce gone, Rhys rejoices and exclaims, "Yes! I finally get some actual lines!"
  • Zora ends up where we first meet her in "Calypso". I would've liked some more context behind everything, but it wasn't meant to be.
  • Rayner's the biggest unknown. Either he eventually gets a command of his own again, he doesn't but continues as First Officer of Discovery until he retires, or he finds another career. Whatever happens, I'm sure it'll work out. And if it's just First Officer of Discovery, there are worse things to be.
So, for the most part things are tied up. And I'm sure SFA will fill us in on some of the gaps. If any combination of Tilly, Reno, and Vance are in a scene together, I'm sure something will come up about Discovery at least once.
 
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