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Your postmortem thoughts on DISCO

Discovery highlighted the new danger of relying solely on one thing to carry the franchise these days.
One thing Berman Trek really had going for it was variety. For a while there e had TNG movies alongside DS9 and VOY, all offering different types of Trek experiences. Then it whittled down to Enterprise. Then nothing.
The big advantage modern Trek has is, there's something for everyone. You don't like the DSC? You can watch PIC, SNW, LD, PRO...
But they're going backwards again. Will SNW be renewed past season 5? So far that seems unlikely. So we'll be headed towards SA being the only Trek on TV. And that might just kill the franchise (again).
There are a lot of people who really, really like DSC. Those people deserve a show that ties into it, like SA. But the broader audience you can reach, the better.
 
Lord Garth said:
Of course not. I'd never in 1,000,000 years say that in 2034 there will be a Discovery movie in theaters. That's insane. I think it might be possible they'll do a TV Movie, I'd say there's a non-zero chance now that TV Movies are a thing for Star Trek, but that's as far as I'll go.
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Ultimately, DISCO--as the CBS era's flagship ST series was exactly where the franchise did not need to go, yet its showrunners doubled-down and presented something that left an overall aura (despite SNW's existence) so underwhelming (or off-putting) that it--as you point out--would not lead to ST returning, but I would say in any form, since it lacked that essential requirement of becoming a cultural fixture with audiences, including drawing in people outside of ST or sci-fi fandom, as seen with TOS.
 
Commander Troi said:
I have to wonder if DISCO could've found a larger audience if it hadn't been on Paramount+.
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Yes. Studios are, I think, making critical errors in this new era, based on erroneous assumptions.
1) Bigger budgets = higher audiences. False. Discovery looked very nice, everyone agreed on that, but just like in comic books, it takes more than pretty art to keep an audience.
2) Streaming is the new king. False
Streaming has a fraction of the viewers of regular TV, even still.
3) Only arc-based shows are resonating with audiences. False. People are starting to complain more and more about bloated runtimes and padded episodes.
Paramount tried to make DSC what they thought audiences wanted: Prestige, arc-based streaming content. But in chasing that, they alienated a good chunk of their normal audience.
 
Cr0sis21 said:
Yes. Studios are, I think, making critical errors in this new era, based on erroneous assumptions.
1) Bigger budgets = higher audiences. False. Discovery looked very nice, everyone agreed on that, but just like in comic books, it takes more than pretty art to keep an audience.
2) Streaming is the new king. False
Streaming has a fraction of the viewers of regular TV, even still.
3) Only arc-based shows are resonating with audiences. False. People are starting to complain more and more about bloated runtimes and padded episodes.
Paramount tried to make DSC what they thought audiences wanted: Prestige, arc-based streaming content. But in chasing that, they alienated a good chunk of their normal audience.
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I mean, look at the 2023-2024 Nielsen ratings. Outside of Football, the biggest since series (Tracker) had 10.8 million viewers. Doesn't sound that bad, right? But look at 18-49. The biggest show then (Survivor) had only 1.4 million views.

To put this in perspective, at TNG's peak in 1993, it had 11.5 million views. It wasn't even in the top 30 then. Way, way more people used to watch TV.

The scary thing for broadcast TV is there's no sign of the trends bottoming out Despite networks having lost something like 80%+ of 18-49 viewers over the last decade, they're still falling.

Screenshot_20230506_174852.png


The median age of viewers for the top five broadcast networks is now close to 65 - and keeps rising. People aren't aging into watching broadcast TV the way they age into, say crossword puzzles or gardening. They are staying cord cutters even as they enter middle age. I'm 45 and haven't owned a TV hooked up to broadcast or cable since I was in college.

At current rates, broadcast TV is going to basically implode in another 10-20 years, with cable not looking much better. This is why CBS tried to get into the streaming game. Because the only alternative is basically setting themselves up as a content shop for Netflix and other streamers, which is a pale shadow of what they used to be. However, depending upon what happens with the sale of Paramount, that might be their fate.

TV is never going to be what it once was for a ton of reasons - not just due to the rise of Netflix. I remember around 20 years ago reading a study that concluded that all leisure activities taken on a computer (gaming, surfing the web, chatting with friends, etc.) directly cut into what was once called "TV time" and that the amount of time someone spent online was directly and negatively correlated with how much TV they watched. So, some sort of large-scale implosion of television was pretty much inevitable.
 
Maybe we can fling a Bird of Prey around the sun to save TV or something. Shove all the sitcom and series stars from NBC in the hold and take them back to the future.
Also, this thread title, wow. It sounds like an autopsy report.
 
I didn't get into DISCO, actually I knew after the first episode that it's not "my Trek". I don't hate it, it's just an entertainment show and it's still Star Trek. And I love Star Trek. But I like it less than all other Treks and that's why I stopped watching it soon.
What do I expect from a good Trek show?
To transport the visions of Gene Roddenberry and the optimistic vision of a better future
Good and exciting story telling
Interesting and developing characters
Fascinating sience fiction
DISCO could only partley fulfill this requirements for me.
F.e. Michael said in the first episode "Violence brought respect. Respect brought peace." This is for me totally against the spirit and the principles of Star Trek or the Federation.
Another thing I don't like is the lack of loyalty and moralty among crew members.
And here is good video about the difference...
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Frontis said:
I didn't get into DISCO, actually I knew after the first episode that it's not "my Trek". I don't hate it, it's just an entertainment show and it's still Star Trek. And I love Star Trek. But I like it less than all other Treks and that's why I stopped watching it soon.
What do I expect from a good Trek show?
To transport the visions of Gene Roddenberry and the optimistic vision of a better future
Good and exciting story telling
Interesting and developing characters
Fascinating sience fiction
DISCO could only partley fulfill this requirements for me.
F.e. Michael said in the first episode "Violence brought respect. Respect brought peace." This is for me totally against the spirit and the principles of Star Trek or the Federation.
Another thing I don't like is the lack of loyalty and moralty among crew members.
And here is good video about the difference...
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Eh, it's not really a good video to illustrate that.
Everyone hated Barclay and wanted him gone. Even Troi got fed up with him. Only Picard was willing to give him a chance.
That video is comparing a fresh captain on her first assignment to the man most people in and out of the Trek universe to be the most competent, thoughtful, diplomatic, and impressive captain to ever serve.
Not to mention that if Barclay had blatantly disobeyed orders like Larkin, Picard would have done a lot worse than transferred him.

Edit: I liked General Grin a lot better when he wasn't such a bitter old asshole.
 
Cr0sis21 said:
That video is comparing a fresh captain on her first assignment to the man most people in and out of the Trek universe to be the most competent, thoughtful, diplomatic, and impressive captain to ever serve.
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Typically what happens, with new Trek; how does it stack against the best?
 
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Frontis said:
I didn't get into DISCO, actually I knew after the first episode that it's not "my Trek".
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It's fine to not enjoy Discovery because of its tone, but that tone shifts wildly as the series evolves and Burnham goes through her arc so you really can't judge the show on its first few episodes at all. I mean if Discovery has one overall message over its run, it's "We need to form connections with people and support each other."
 
One little nitpick that I find hilarious.

Apparently, by the 33rd century, Starfleet has decided the flashing lights of the Columbia NX-02's bridge were a great idea and have applied that to (at the very least) their shuttles. Because, in a working environment, there's nothing distracting about a pulsating light source originating behind you.

During this entire scene, when I saw the lights in the hallway behind them, I was like damn they really went back to the pulsating lights from Enterprise lol.
admiral-burnham-and-captain-burnham-in-their-shuttle-in-star-trek_-discovery.jpg

In Enterprise, the NX-02 set redress of the NX-01 bridge is taken to weird and nonsensical levels, since it feels like the set designer waited until the very last minute to figure out what to do with it, and came in to decide "screw it" and started throwing in anything they could find to attach to the bridge set.
USSColumbia.png

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Frontis said:
I didn't get into DISCO, actually I knew after the first episode that it's not "my Trek". I don't hate it, it's just an entertainment show and it's still Star Trek. And I love Star Trek. But I like it less than all other Treks and that's why I stopped watching it soon.
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I get it. That's fair. I've felt that way about Enterprise, the Kelvin Films, Lower Decks, and Strange New Worlds. So, I've been down that path four times myself.

Even though, ironically, the SNW/LD crossover worked like gold. Or, actually, more like water. It's like a Chemistry Experiment. Take two things I'm normally not into, combine them, and then it created something I got a huge kick out of. It's like taking two hydrogen molecules, one oxygen molecule, and now we have water.
 
Commander Troi said:
I have to wonder if DISCO could've found a larger audience if it hadn't been on Paramount+.
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I think it could've. Paramount+/CBSAA gave Discovery the pre-existing audience. I think Discovery needed a new audience to slowly replace those in the pre-existing audience who tuned out.

TNG lost a lot of TOS fans, but it didn't matter because it also picked up fans of its own who didn't even like TOS. Then DS9, VOY, and ENT were stuck with that TNG audience as it gradually tuned out. Netflix created a ton of new Star Trek fans. So they should've had Discovery there. Built-in audience with enough people who already became fans of Star Trek but weren't yet jaded.

That's why I love watching YouTube Reactors react to Star Trek. They're like sponges. They want to pick this stuff up. Unlike a lot of people here where, no offense, they're super-picky at best. At worst they're like, "No! I want no more!" I like when YouTube Commenters try to steer the YouTube Reactors in a certain direction, and then the reactors don't hate (or treat sacred) something the commenters do. People get too used to their opinions, and start to take their opinions for granted, including myself, so I like the fresh perspectives.

I also love when someone decides to watch Discovery or finally give it a chance, and they react with, "Wait a minute. Was I supposed to hate this?!"
 
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