Your opinion of the non-JMS-written Babylon 5 episodes

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Candlelight, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    Which include:

    Babylon 5

    103 Born to the Purple by Larry DiTillio
    107 The War Prayer by D. C. Fontana
    109 Deathwalker by Larry DiTillio
    110 Believers by David Gerrold
    111 Survivors by Mark Scott Zicree
    112 By Any Means Necessary by Kathryn Drennan
    114 TKO by Larry DiTillio
    115 Grail by Christy Marx
    116 Eyes by Larry DiTillio
    117 Legacies by D. C. Fontana

    204 A Distant Star by D. C. Fontana
    205 The Long Dark by Scott Frost
    206 Spider in the Web by Larry DiTillio
    207 Soul Mates by Peter David
    210 GROPOS by Larry DiTillio
    214 There All the Honor Lies by Peter David
    217 Knives by Larry DiTillio

    508 Day of the Dead by Neil Gaiman

    Crusade

    103 The Well of Forever by Fiona Avery
    105 Patterns of the Soul by Fiona Avery
    106 Ruling From the Tomb by Peter David

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    Of the season one eps, only Deathwalker and Grail stood out for me, two eps which I know fans don't really think much of. It wasn't really for the stand alone story but for the arc links (Kosh's actions at the end of Deathwalker and Jinxo's backstory in Grail about the first four Babylon stations, and thus foreshadowing what was to come in Babylon Squared).

    In season two, I only really found A Distant Star grabbed me, despite the hammy acting by the ship's captain.

    And for Crusade, only Patterns of the Souls really did anything for me. Ruling from the Tomb and the Excalibur's only visit to Babylon 5 in the series was unfortunately forgettable; I had to google it to remember what the episode was about.
     
  2. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Most of the episodes not written by Straczynski on Babylon 5 are entirely forgettable. They don't contribute much to the arc, save for a few scenes, many of which (like Kosh in Deathwalker) were actually written by Straczynski himself. As far as I recall, anyway. I defer to Jan for the final word on such things.

    Episodes like Knives and Eyes do nothing but reiterate plot and character development that has already happened. I hate to use the word, as it is often misused, but they're filler.

    An episode like Survivors introduces a character we'll never see or hear from again (the President's security officer from Garibaldi's past) and a problem we already know about (Garibaldi's alcoholism) that will quickly resolve itself in 42 minutes. And it's a problem that will be fully addressed in season five by Straczynski, so making light of it here doesn't make sense.

    An episode like A Spider in the Web introduces a plot element that seems important (Bureau 13) but actually isn't, since it wasn't JMS' idea. It'll never be brought up again.

    Most of the others are filled with cliched television storylines, and big dumb heavies (Born into Purple, Grail) that the show has been rightly criticized for.

    Interestingly enough, I'm more partial to the non-JMS episodes on Crusade, but they work better on that short-lived series, because it was more episodic.
     
  3. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    But that was because of legal action, not because JMS wanted it dropped.
     
  4. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    All except four of them were written from his own story ideas. I can't remember which four were original stories from other writers.

    I think Eyes was one of them.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No comment about specific episodes, but I liked it better when there were multiple writers doing the show, bringing different voices and sensibilities. With JMS writing every single script, it got to the point that the show sounded like an extended monologue, one guy talking to himself. When Neil Gaiman finally did "Day of the Dead," it was so immensely refreshing to hear a different voice, a different style of dialogue and storytelling. I think JMS really dug himself into a rut and it got tired after a while.
     
  6. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    The non-JMS episodes were generally the worst of the series (War Prayer, Believers, TKO, Grail). I did like some of them though like Deathwalker and By Any Means. I also enjoyed the comedic dialogue of the Peter David episodes and wish he got to do more work on the show.
     
  7. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    Not exactly. Bureau 13 was used before they knew of the role-playing game but there was no legal action:

    One was definitely "By Any Means Necessary" and another was "GROPOS". "There All the Honor Lies" was oringinally pitched by Peter David with Garibaldi shooting someone but JMS changed it to Sheridan being the shooter.

    I liked them for the texture they added to the show. Later on there was no time to explore labor relations on the station or the arts and traditions of alien worlds but the story was much richer for them having been explored early on.

    Jan
     
  8. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

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    Some of those are among my favourites; Day of the Dead, GROPOS, The Well of Forever. As Jan says, they tended to add a little more texture to the series. As good a writer as JMS is, you do a little to used to his "voice". So much so in my case that I had a little trouble getting into some of his other works (Jeremiah, Changeling) because I kept hearing lines that sounded straight out of B5.

    As far as the weaker episodes go, I think the faults tended to lie more in poor casting and directing than the writing.
    I've actually managed to appreciate 'TKO' a lot more with repeated viewings. Not so much for the narrative as for how well conceived the Mutai is on paper. I suppose it's no coincidence that Larry DiTillio was the one that wrote most of the background info on most of the League races.
     
  9. Phillip Culley

    Phillip Culley Captain Captain

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    I remember reading somewhere that as Kathryn Drennan was JMS's significant other, she was under much more pressure than normal when writing 'By Any Means Necessary' so as to avoid any claims of nepotism...
     
  10. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    JMS and Kathryn Drennan were married at the time and JMS posted about some of the hoops he made her jump through.

    Jan
     
  11. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    "Well of Forever" was one of my fav CRU eps. Ruling From the Tomb had some good comedy and some not so good stuff. Patterns of the Soul is with the X-Files Alien Hunter right? Didn't really care for that one.
     
  12. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

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    No, you're thinking of 'Visitors from Down the Street' (easily my least favourite episode.)
    'Patterns of the Soul' was the one with a long lost colony of Dureena's people (did that race ever get a name?) and a bunch of AWOL gropos who had escaped from an [foreshadow] Earthforce Black Ops program [/foreshadow].
     
  13. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    ^ That's what I'm talking about. I meant the actor from the X-Files who played the alien bounty hunter, he played the cyborg rebel leader guy. I forget his name, Brian Markinson or something.
     
  14. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    I hadn't realized that they were no longer married. When did that happen?
     
  15. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know but the first time I noticed him alluding to being divorced was sometime last year.

    Jan
     
  16. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Legacies, TKO, Eyes, GROPOS, There All the Honor Lies.
     
  17. Orac Zen

    Orac Zen Mischief Manager Super Moderator

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    "GROPOS" was the episode that really made B5 click with me - the ep that convinced me it was far more than just another show (thanks to the way the show was jerked around in the scheduling here I'd missed a few eps that would probably have achieved that earlier) - so I have a soft spot for it. The last scene in particular floored me.

    Of the others, "The War Prayer" and "By Any Means Necessary" are two eps I always enjoy, and parts of "Deathwalker" and "Day of the Dead" are pretty good. The rest are mostly meh - except for "TKO", which is mostly awful.
     
  18. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

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    See what happens when I skim read? I just saw the word "X-Files" and jumped to a conclusion. ;)
    Yeah, 'Patterns of the Soul' had Alien bounty hunter bloke from X-Files. Not one of my favourite episodes personally, just average. Though as I alluded to, I wouldn't be surprised if it became more significant down the road once Crusade's REAL plot got under-way.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You must mean Brian Thompson. Who could hardly be more different from Brian Markinson. ;)
     
  20. Mistral

    Mistral Vice Admiral Admiral

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    GROPOS, Day of the Dead, A Distant Star were all well done, IMO.