Your Ideas: Star Trek III but no Leonard Nimoy

[CoveTom]

That's possible, though there seemed to be older captains around in the TOS movie era.

I'm not sure if Shatner and Kirk were the same age. I mainly go by the timeline from the Star Trek Encyclopedia, which establishes that Kirk would be 50. Shatner was a year older than Kirk in '82. As for being ordered to take a desk job, that's certainly a narrative possibility but it also doesn't seem the right way to go with Kirk. He risked a hell of a lot to get his command back in TMP and then, assuming the timeline is correct, gave it up again not a decade later. The reason this wasn't an issue in TWOK is because Meyer has been pretty clear that he and the producers ignored TMP's existence.

I agree that his exact age shouldn't have been revealed and that age shouldn't have come up as an issue in the early TOS films. I could see that by TVH but not in the second film.

In retrospect, it really is odd that they made such an issue of the age thing. I am 49 years old myself right now and although I can definitely tell differences in my body from when I was 20, short of participating in athletic competition I'm certainly as physically and mentally capable as I was 10 or 15 years ago. TWOK acts like Kirk is ready for the old folks home.

Even by today's standards in 2025, we assume people will be perfectly capable of carrying on with careers until age 65 at least, and many go well beyond that. Surely by the 23rd century, with medicine vastly improved and lifespans drastically increased (cf., McCoy in TNG), the age of 49 will mean even less.

In fact, the age that Kirk is in TWOK is basically the average age of a captain in today's US Navy. Certainly you don't have many people reaching the rank of captain and commanding major naval vessels equivalent to the Enterprise in their 30's. According to the great Google machine, the average age of someone reaching the lowest admiral rank today is 57 and full admiral is generally something achieved by people in their 60's.

I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that Nick Meyer himself was a young guy when he wrote TWOK (around 35 if we assume he wrote it in 1981) and maybe he still fell into that trap that we all do when we are younger of certain ages seeming much older than they are.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Although learning seems to be accelerated in Star Trek's future, it still mostly appears to follow the same pattern of elementary, middle, secondary, post-secondary, however advanced the subjects taught at these grade levels are.

 

[CoveTom]

Although learning seems to be accelerated in Star Trek's future, it still mostly appears to follow the same pattern of elementary, middle, secondary, post-secondary, however advanced the subjects taught at these grade levels are.

Which is interesting, because schooling as we know it today is mostly at 20th century invention. Throughout most of human history, there has been nowhere near that amount of formal schooling.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

That's possible, though there seemed to be older captains around in the TOS movie era.

There were older Captains on TOS, too. usually whenever we met another Captain (Captain Merik, Captain Tracey, Captain Wesley), they had a good 10-20 years on Kirk. I think that was very intentional to show that Kirk was something of a wunderkind. When Kirk ran into his old Academy classmates, like in "Court Martial," they were invariably lower in rank than him.

But yeah, I think they intentionally cast older folks in their 40s and 50s as Starship Captains in the movie era so that they looked like contemporaries of Kirk and his crew.

 

[Ssosmcin]

In retrospect, it really is odd that they made such an issue of the age thing. I am 49 years old myself right now and although I can definitely tell differences in my body from when I was 20, short of participating in athletic competition I'm certainly as physically and mentally capable as I was 10 or 15 years ago. TWOK acts like Kirk is ready for the old folks home.

Actually, Kirk acts like Kirk is ready for the old folks home. Nobody else does. This is Kirk's midlife crisis and Bones calls him out on it.

"This is not about age, and you know it. It's about you flying a goddamn computer console when you wanna be out there hoppin' galaxies!"

Nobody else feels too old, not even Bones who suggests putting an experienced crew back on the Enterprise. But Kirk is hitting a milestone birthday and he has no ship and suddenly his past is catching up with him. An old foe he forgot about is trying to kill him .Kirk has been away from command so he's rusty. And then he has to face a son he doesn't know, who represents a family he never had.

So really, this is Kirk's inner old age fixation. Does it make sense? To Kirk it does.

 

[Uxi]

Would have been interesting, for sure. If there had been a successful series of TV movies, and Kirstie Alley had continue to play Saavik, we may have never gotten Rebecca Howe on Cheers.

I like to imagine her being able to do both and being a much bigger star. Not Robin Curtis' fault but Kirstie Alley always owned Saavik in my mind.

 

[Uxi]

Actually, Kirk acts like Kirk is ready for the old folks home. Nobody else does. This is Kirk's midlife crisis and Bones calls him out on it.

"This is not about age, and you know it. It's about you flying a goddamn computer console when you wanna be out there hoppin' galaxies!"

Nobody else feels too old, not even Bones who suggests putting an experienced crew back on the Enterprise. But Kirk is hitting a milestone birthday and he has no ship and suddenly his past is catching up with him. An old foe he forgot about is trying to kill him .Kirk has been away from command so he's rusty. And then he has to face a son he doesn't know, who represents a family he never had.

So really, this is Kirk's inner old age fixation. Does it make sense? To Kirk it does.

I liked it at the time, but you gotta wonder if it doesn't make more sense to want to be an Admiral at some point, being realistic that one can learn to age gracefully and adapt, to go from doing to help train the next generation and pass the torch off it to it and pass on what he learned as a younger man.

Of course, as Shatner supposedly relayed on the Sulu promotion, though: "It's not real." and accepting those promotions which are logical in Real Life means they're not in the next movie except as a cameo or far reduced role.

 

[Ssosmcin]

People make bad choices. Kirk accepted the promotion and it didn't turn out the way he hoped and now he misses his old job.

Suddenly, what you consider the measure of your worth is gone. We have no idea what kind of Admiral that Kirk was. He may have actually been not very good in the job because he disliked it. Things slagged off, reports were missed but because of his previous record - and the lack of really important stuff to do - he got a pass (even without that - it's clear it's boring). So Kirk is thinking "if I can't be happy at my job, what else do I have?" No family, his son doesn't know he exists, he goes home alone and he's got this birthday he wasn't looking forward to. He's got, as far as we know, exactly two friends.

I love it, because it makes sense on a human level. Once Kirk got his old job back, and worked out the rustiness, he felt reinvigorated and alive. Soon he's flirting with 20th century women and free-climbing mountains.

 

[CoveTom]

Well, FWIW, regardless of what appeared on screen, the intention was that Spock and Saavik had sex in TSFS. It was in early drafts of the TVH screenplay that Saavik was pregnant in fact, and that's why she was remaining behind on Vulcan.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Well, FWIW, regardless of what appeared on screen, the intention was that Spock and Saavik had sex in TSFS. It was in early drafts of the TVH screenplay that Saavik was pregnant in fact, and that's why she was remaining behind on Vulcan.

Yup I get that and I'm thankful they backed off from it. In the end, though, what is on screen is what matters.