Your Calls: CGI Made it Better, CGI Made it Worse.

[Metryq]

And the Enterprise has no weight (or mass).

BOOM! That's the bit that really rubs my fur the wrong way—the Enterprise swooping and twirling like a sixth generation fighter jet. Can't think of an example off the top of my head, but most of the episodes ripped into my media center have the older VFX. I'd have to haul the discs out to go looking for the Tinkerbell Enterprise.

 

[Warped9]

BOOM! That's the bit that really rubs my fur the wrong way—the Enterprise swooping and twirling like a sixth generation fighter jet. Can't think of an example off the top of my head, but most of the episodes ripped into my media center have the older VFX. I'd have to haul the discs out to go looking for the Tinkerbell Enterprise.

I think “The Doomsday Machine” is a prime example. There’s also “Tomorrow Is Yesterday.”

 

[UssGlenn]

-The FX team never seemed to read the script, giving us things like an out of control Botany Bay rather than one whose 'on automatic' or 'being used by aliens

Kirk does specifically call it a derelict before Spock suggested ailens.

 

[Warp Core Breach]

I prefer the original effects for the most part. Product of their time and it took a lot of work for the various artists to make that come together. There are some parts of the CGI replacements that work and a whole lot more that just don't for various reasons.

One example, I was watching remastered "Obsession" awhile back and when they're at warp chasing the cloud creature... hoo boy. That starfield warp effect was goofy as all hell.

Doomsday Machine is another pet peeve. I'd seen better renditions of the PK on this very board done by amateurs well before the remasters were done. Not to mention the rest of the effects in that iconic episode.

I don't really mind the planetside matte replacements, for the most part they seem interesting and fairly well done. So I dunno, I've been hot and cold on the whole thing since the episodes were released. But at least we can still enjoy the original effects if we wish, unlike certain other properties.

 

[Michael]

While I’m personally neither the biggest fan of what they did with space shots and the ship nor mind those replacement effects shots all that much, to be honest, I generally appreciate what they did with matte paintings and digital set extensions. Not necessarily because they fit the 60s TOS aesthetic super well, but because they look cool in their own right. Here are some of my favorites …

Spoiler: TOS-R Matte Paintings

As for the space/ship shots: Years ago there was this test footage from EdenFX floating around the internet, who were an effects house who pitched to do the recreated effects for the TOS-R project but ultimately lost out to CBS’ in-house effects division. They seemed to have an alternative aesthetic in mind for the effects which would have stayed much truer to how they looked on the original show, only in high definition. I wish they would have gone this route …

 

[Warp Core Breach]

While I’m personally neither the biggest fan of what they did with space shots and the ship nor mind those replacement effects shots all that much, to be honest, I generally appreciate what they did with matte paintings and digital set extensions. Not necessarily because they fit the 60s TOS aesthetic super well, but because they look cool in their own right. Here are some of my favorites …

Spoiler: TOS-R Matte Paintings

As for the space/ship shots: Years ago there was this test footage from EdenFX floating around the internet, who were an effects house who pitched to do the recreated effects for the TOS-R project but ultimately lost out to CBS’ in-house effects division. They seemed to have an alternative aesthetic in mind for the effects which would have stayed much truer to how they looked on the original show, only in high definition. I wish they would have gone this route …

Yup, all of that is pretty much beautiful. I'd forgotten about EdenFX.

 

[Ssosmcin]

This is what I'm saying. I'm not against new FX per se. I just didn't like the FX we got in the end.

 

[publiusr]

I did like seeing different ships in The Enterprise Incident—that I liked.

 

[Tosk]

I think EdenFX did a fabulous job of reproducing the grotty, washed-out, multi-gen look of the original composite, albeit without the dirt.

It truly is a shame that they didn't still have all the bluescreen photography. Imagine the original footage composited using modern tech...would have been marvelous.

 

[Count]

while i generally prefer the remasters, there was some super bad calls in it.

Operation Annihilate for instance is almost painful to watch the UV Satellites, they look liked unfinished previs. Day of the Dove, blowing up the klingon ship is just as bad too.

I liked the matte extensions and cleanups, _that_ fit well, but a good chunk of the space stuff felt _worse_ than Enterprise or even early Voyager CG.

 

[Outpost4]

I'm a big original effects fan. That said, the new effects did a couple of things right. One, they could give us a better idea of where the Enterprise was in space, like at the end of Where No Man Has Gone Before. The new effects set up that after the Enterprise left Delta Vega, it has to go back through the Galactic Barrier, something that was left out with the original effects.

Another episode where this sense of where our heroes were in space was improved in The Galileo Seven. In TOS-R, it really looks like a place where the shuttlecraft could have gotten lost.

The other thing I like better are the phaser and torpedo effects. Sure, they made them look more consistent with later versions of Trek, but continuity is not a bad thing. The big improvement is they come from the right part of the ship. Sometimes they didn't in the past. When that happened, it took me right out of the story. Wait a minute, that's not where the Phaser Control is.

I guess what I'm saying here is if the TOS-R effects improved the story-telling, I can get behind them. If they are just to make Star Trek look more shiny and spiffy, then I don't prefer them.

 

[Tallguy]

I don't really think they got there for any of the ship shots. Including (especially?) Corbomite.

Not because they were garbage, or lazy, or didn't love Star Trek. (When you start accusing Mike Okuda of not loving Star Trek you're on very shaky ground.) The tech and the schedule just wasn't there. And they haven't aged well, unfortunately.

I think the live action set extensions like in The Menagerie were marvelous.

I'm a big original effects fan. That said, the new effects did a couple of things right. One, they could give us a better idea of where the Enterprise was in space, like at the end of Where No Man Has Gone Before. The new effects set up that after the Enterprise left Delta Vega, it has to go back through the Galactic Barrier, something that was left out with the original effects.

No it didn't. That's the same shot of the center of the galaxy that the Enterprise is flying away from at the start of the episode before they encounter the barrier.

The Enterprise (and the Valiant) never made it through the barrier. Besides that would imply that the ore ships that call on Delta Vega ALSO had to go through the barrier.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'm a big original effects fan. That said, the new effects did a couple of things right. One, they could give us a better idea of where the Enterprise was in space, like at the end of Where No Man Has Gone Before. The new effects set up that after the Enterprise left Delta Vega, it has to go back through the Galactic Barrier, something that was left out with the original effects.

I disagree with your interpretation of the WNMHGB ending fx. At the beginning of the episode, I think the Enterprise went into the Barrier and bounced right back out, never having crossed it.

At the end in TOS-R, I think we are looking inward at the great mass of the Milky Way, which appears densely populated with stars because we are looking through its whole disc. The Barrier is unseen at our backs in this shot.

The cloudy, glowing mass where stars should be is an optical illusion seen in real astronomy photos. The stars are each light years apart (none are right near the Enterprise), but we are looking through a few hundred billion of them, so they blend into a luminous cloud.

Hubble's big mosaic of the Andromeda galaxy illustrates the glowing-cloud illusion:

Sharpest ever view of the Andromeda Galaxy

Sharpest ever view of the Andromeda Galaxy

esahubble.org

But I absolutely agree that some of the TOS-R versions improve the visual narrative by showing you what is going on with plot-specific fx rather than generic stock shots. The greatest example is "Tomorrow is Yesterday," when we speed off toward the sun at warp 9. TOS-R makes it clear we're whipping around the sun, not driving straight toward it and taking forever.

 

[Metryq]

The greatest example is "Tomorrow is Yesterday," when we speed off toward the sun at warp 9. TOS-R makes it clear we're whipping around the sun, not driving straight toward it and taking forever.

Granted, but that close pass around the Sun was also the most barren, videogame-like rendering of the Sun ever. A textured sphere with a few geometry-based prominences. No particle effects at all. When was TOS-R, late '90s? Now take a look at the Sun renderings in the 1998 Lost In Space movie.

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Heck, even the aerobraking maneuver at Jupiter for 2010: The Year We Make Contact (1984) was more dramatic, and that was done with practical effects. (There were later shots of Leonov in orbit with a CGI cloud pattern for Jupiter.)

 

[Tallguy]

The greatest example is "Tomorrow is Yesterday,"

OK, I take some of my remarks about the ship shots back. The Enterprise in atmosphere in TIY is amazing. OTOH I don't think the ship shots at the end help the narrative because the narrative at the end of TIY makes no sense anyway.

When was TOS-R, late '90s?

2006, the 40th anniversary.

I disagree with your interpretation of the WNMHGB ending fx. At the beginning of the episode, I think the Enterprise went into the Barrier and bounced right back out, never having crossed it.

Exactly this.

 

[Henoch]

I wish "they" would redo the CGI of the TOS Enterprise; it just looks too phony and cartoonish.

I disagree with your interpretation of the WNMHGB ending fx. At the beginning of the episode, I think the Enterprise went into the Barrier and bounced right back out, never having crossed it.

I agree; they returned back to the galaxy side of the barrier.
Kirk orders "Helmsmen, take us out of here." Later in his log, it clear that they are heading back into the galaxy: "Ship's condition, heading back on impulse power only. Main engines burned out. The ship's space warp ability gone. Earth bases which were only days away are now years in the distance."

 

[Ssosmcin]

Granted, but that close pass around the Sun was also the most barren, videogame-like rendering of the Sun ever. A textured sphere with a few geometry-based prominences. No particle effects at all. When was TOS-R, late '90s? Now take a look at the Sun renderings in the 1998 Lost In Space movie.

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Heck, even the aerobraking maneuver at Jupiter for 2010: The Year We Make Contact (1984) was more dramatic, and that was done with practical effects. (There were later shots of Leonov in orbit with a CGI cloud pattern for Jupiter.)

To be fair, if they made the sun 100% accurate, would it be in keeping with "what they could do in the 60's with more money" aesthetic they claim to be in keeping with? Even TOS-R wasn't supposed to be documentary realistic. Better than video game rendering, I agree, but comparing it to the much MUCH more expensive effects of the LIS movie isn't fair. Other than the Blarp (which always looked embarassing), that film's effects still look fantastic. But the TV budgeted and quickly rendered TOS-R stuff was hit or miss in 2006 and has aged quickly.

 

[Warped9]

TOS-R clearly did things that couldn't have been done in the 1960s no matter how much money was available.

 

[Metryq]

To be fair, if they made the sun 100% accurate, would it be in keeping with "what they could do in the 60's with more money" aesthetic they claim to be in keeping with?

As Warped9 pointed out above, TOS-R already did things that were "not possible" in the 1960s.

However, I did punched up VFX for this very episode without CGI in the mid '80s. The episode had stock shots where there should have been story-specific VFX, as pointed out above. I worked in the university TV studio, and had access to time base correctors, switchers and other gear to do what I wanted. (Unfortunately, none of those U-matic recordings made it through to today.)

The original "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" has a shot of the Enterprise diving into the blackness of space where we should see the growing sphere of the Sun. I didn't have CGI particle effects (which didn't exist at the time), so I went for an over-exposed effect. A bright sphere tapering to yellow-orange at the edge. The Enterprise on the original footage luminance-keyed itself over the Sun and dove into a spec in the distance, just a few degrees past the limb, as though making a tight orbit.

For the time warp effect, I took a cue from Nam Jun Paik and the Doctor Who titles. With the right contrast, I got animated streaks that shot past the "camera" rather than forming bland columns of light. And I was working with no budget.

 

[Warped9]

^^ That would be interesting to see.