Younger women wanting sterilisation

[JWPlatt]

Besides medical dikigorosophobia, the concept of the absolute human right and, indeed, the religious responsibility and dogma to procreate without bounds unimpeded, even in the face of extreme overpopulation, starvation, famine, pollution, climate change and economical collapse under its own weight - the requirement of the people to bear babies shall not be infringed and all other considerations are rescinded.

That said, both men and women are no longer relevant to each other, so the matter of this thread is essentially moot. Men don't need women. Women don't need men:

Egg fertilized without sperm (men):
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2001/07/egg-fertilized-without-sperm

Sperm fertilized without egg (women):
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-37337215

 

[Miss Chicken]

Just out of curiosity, couldn't she try non-surgical methods (like IUD, or a ring) to prevent pregnancies?
I agree that she should not be denied the procedure if that's what she desires; she is legally an adult.

As the article says

We don’t want to risk another failed contraception because we’ve obviously already had three,

and

She fell pregnant for the first time just four months into her relationship, which has become strained by the couple’s constant struggle to find effective contraception.

It looks like she might be one of those women who contraceptives do not work for. I, myself, fell pregnant while on the Pill and also with an IUD.

 

[Jedman67]

Oh didn't see that

It looks like she might be one of those women who contraceptives do not work for. I, myself, fell pregnant while on the Pill and also with an IUD.

My daughter was 'unplanned' as my wife was still nursing but nothing is 100% foolproof. I'm very glad we have her though, she is a delightful 1.5 year old now.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

This isn't directly relevant (and perhaps not at all) but back in the 70s in the UK, it was proposed that all male and female children be reversibly sterilised at puberty to prevent unwanted pregnancies and the need for abortions. The suggested method was to clamp the Vas Deferens or Fallopian tubes, as appropriate, and to reverse the operation when the individual was judged responsible enough to be a parent. Thankfully, it seems that the technology is still wanting for that somewhat fascistic dream of state control of human reproduction to become possible.

Re: the question in the thread -- if the Queensland health care system (I assume this isn't a request to a private clinic) has applied its ethical rules impartially, there's no reason I can see for it to make a special case. If the woman were to go to a private clinic, I wonder if they would be bound by the same rules.

 

[Miss Chicken]

It doesn't matter if the health care system applies it rule impartially or not, if the rule itself denies bodily autonomy to adults. It is especially true in this case where there are health reason for her needing a tubal ligation. It is also denying her husband the right to a vasectomy because of her, not his age.

According to this page

Any man may have a vasectomy, irrespective of age, marital status or childlessness. Counselling is available before a procedure to discuss options. You do not require anyone else's consent nor do you need referral from a doctor.

The reason a man might be able to get sterilisation easier might be because his procedure can be done at a clinic, while hers has to be done in a hospital. Another reason I have seen why it is easier for men to get sterilised is that men do not have many options apart from condoms or sterilisation whereas a woman has several more choices.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Why. is. this. even. a. question?!? Stop trying to control women's bodies.

If the procedure is generally available, and she is being denied exclusively because of her age, how is this not discrimination? Does Australia have some type of Human Rights Commission that she could raise a complaint to?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm kind of surprised that Queensland, with its reputation for ultra-conservatism, didn't jump on the chance to sterilise both the woman and her husband.

 

[Spot's Meow]

It's shocking to me that this type of attitude exists.

My husband got a vasectomy when he was 22 (before I met him), and when I've asked him about it since then he says that it was basically no questions asked. He told them he wanted it done, and they informed him of the possible medical consequences/side effects, but they never tried to talk him out of it or warn him of possible regrets. Now imagine a 22 year old woman asking for the same thing; I really don't think it would have gone quite so smoothly.

It all doesn't make very much sense to me. No one seems that upset that we let adults get possibly irreversible tattoos that they may later regret, or cosmetic surgery that may alter them in unanticipated negative ways forever, but I guess when it comes to reproduction we are supposed to have some civic duty to repopulate the earth. I don't want children. And if I did want children, I would seriously consider adoption before ever considering pregnancy. But who cares what I want, right? Better for me to have an unwanted child that leaves me bitter and resentful than to let me make a choice I could possibly regret one day (but probably wouldn't).

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I think what it really comes down to is a persistent belief that all women want children, or will eventually want them, and it's unfathomable that any woman might never want to have them.

Nobody bats an eye at men who don't want kids, but women who don't want them are generally seen as defective, somehow.

This is sexist as all hell, obviously.

 

[Relayer1]

I think what it really comes down to is a persistent belief that all women want children, or will eventually want them, and it's unfathomable that any woman might never want to have them.

Nobody bats an eye at men who don't want kids, but women who don't want them are generally seen as defective, somehow.

This is sexist as all hell, obviously.

There's a lot of truth in this.

People want other people to make the same choices as them for validation. Look, we had kids, you should too ! No ? Well why the hell not ?

 

[Doom Shepherd]

That said, both men and women are no longer relevant to each other, so the matter of this thread is essentially moot. Men don't need women. Women don't need men:

Egg fertilized without sperm (men):
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2001/07/egg-fertilized-without-sperm

Sperm fertilized without egg (women):
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-37337215

Wasn't this the backstory of a really bad TOS episode?

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I'm definitely in support of tubal ligation, regardless of a woman's age.

Her body. Her choice.

 

[USS Triumphant]

My wife gave birth to our son when she was 17, and then to our daughter when she was 21. We had decided while we were engaged that two would be enough for us, and we both felt especially satisfied with that decision since we had a boy and a girl. So my wife elected to have her tubes tied immediately after my daughter was born, because that apparently makes the procedure easier - at the very least, it means one fewer stay at the hospital. When the doctor realized that that was expected (I guess he didn't actually look at what he was expected to do until right after my daughter was born?), she and I both got the third degree, and my wife actually had to threaten to sue if they didn't do the procedure. They did it, but they certainly did their best to make her feel like she was an idiot who didn't know her own best interests first - and they treated me like I was a scummy older man somehow forcing her to do something she would regret later. Which was absurd - I'm only 8 months older than her and I didn't force anything - and also insulting to our relationship, as though they were saying that she would regret not being able to have children with other men later after she ditched my sorry ass or something.

(I'd probably have been more upset about that if I wasn't used to people treating us like that after the way we were treated during my senior year of high school. For example, I had earned being on the graduation stage, academically, but they refused to let me sit up there because I was "a bad influence" because I had married my wife and we had a baby. We've been together 25 years this month - so I guess the best revenge is living well? )

 

[ichab]

No. To the best of my knowledge, we're not trying to currently repopulate the planet after an apocalypse, so if she doesn't want to breed, that's totally her call.

That she's trying to do it because of previous unplanned/unwanted pregnancies ought to make it even easier. Sign something saying you won't sue and wasn't pressured into it, and snip away.

I don't even understand why that's debatable...

Me neither. So long as she's willing to sign that form and live with the consequences of her actions I say have at it.

 

[JWPlatt]

Remember to make a difference beyond posting about it by getting elected to office, or writing to your representatives about it, and vote for those who believe similarly.

 

[Catarina]

Is this a universal issue or a religion facility issue? I could see that at Catholic hospitals for an example. Here in the states they were happy to tie me up. I assumed it was because when I had one of my children I was on Medicaid at the time. They did go through the "are you sure? sign here" talk. but I was never denied.

 

[Catarina]

Oh I forgot to add, I vote for autonomy. her body her choice. With all the unwanted babies in world or risk of a complicated pregnancy for some women, i welcome it.

 

[Vorpal_Blade]

She should not be denied the operation. When I was 21 and in the Air Force I had a vasectomy. I already had two kids and I got one with my wife's support. If I can get a vasectomy at that age she should be able to get her tubes tied.

 

[maneth]

Definitely, I would support the right of any adult woman to get her tubes tied at any age, whether or not she's had any children. I'd go so far as to offer the option to anyone who has had more than one abortion.
Her body, her choice.

 

[Starkers]

It's shocking to me that this type of attitude exists.

My husband got a vasectomy when he was 22 (before I met him), and when I've asked him about it since then he says that it was basically no questions asked. He told them he wanted it done, and they informed him of the possible medical consequences/side effects, but they never tried to talk him out of it or warn him of possible regrets. Now imagine a 22 year old woman asking for the same thing; I really don't think it would have gone quite so smoothly.
.

I used to work with a guy who'd had a vasectomy when he was in his early twenties which I'm guessing must have been the late seventies/early eighties judging by how old he is. He just made the decision he didn't want kids and whilst I'm guessing they made him aware of any risks they let him have the procedure.
Ironically he ended up in a long term relationship with a woman who already had two kids and ended up a step dad anyway.

I think what it really comes down to is a persistent belief that all women want children, or will eventually want them, and it's unfathomable that any woman might never want to have them.

Nobody bats an eye at men who don't want kids, but women who don't want them are generally seen as defective, somehow.

This is sexist as all hell, obviously.

As a guy in his mid forties I've had plenty of female friends going on at me about having kids, had a friend of mine who's mother to two girls bring the subject up again just a few months ago, so whilst I accept women who don't want kids get more shit about it, I wouldn't say men are immune from the issue either.