^^^Also, It has been mentioned that Zatara had trained a young Bruce Wayne in escape artistry, but I am not sure where that is from.
Recently before the relaunch in a conversation with Catwoman, Zee revealed to her that she once did have designs on Bruce but as Kestrel stated above said that the cowl got in the way of anything happening and they decided to remain friends. She also implied in that conversation that Bruce really was interested in Selina. I think this took place in Gotham City Sirens.
J
Jetfire
Guest
New YJ tonight!
"Failsafe"
"Failsafe"
When the Justice League is defeated by alien invaders, Young Justice must step up to fight in their stead.
Hmm... this one turned out a little disappointingly.
They were going for an "Over the Edge" sort of thing (from The New Batman Adventures), I guess, but it didn't work as well. What made "Over the Edge" so powerful despite being all just a dream was its strong foundation in character. The revelation that it was Barbara's dream wasn't a copout but actually made it more meaningful, because it made it a manifestation of her fears and doubts about her life choices, revealed something about the character that we hadn't known before, and led her to make an important decision about her relationship with her father.
But here, the only revelation was that M'Gann is a much stronger telepath than we thought. While that technically constitutes learning something about a character, it's not something that carries emotional weight or provides a strong resolution to this particular 22 minutes of storytelling; it's just the setup for future plot developments.
And what character stuff we got was mostly stuff we already knew -- M'Gann loves Connor, Wally's in love with Artemis, there's tension between Kaldur and Robin about leadership. We did see Connor make some progress toward reconciling with the Superman legacy, but that's the only significant consequence to the "dream" on a personal level, and even it feels inconclusive as long as Superman remains offstage.
Otherwise, the episode was well-made and had some effective moments. My favorite was the Iris West-Allen news report. It was cool getting the camera's-eye view of the whole thing, and I loved the subtle interplay between Iris and the Flash/Barry, the way they were trying to keep their relationship secret while on live TV but you could still see the little moments of affection.
But here, the only revelation was that M'Gann is a much stronger telepath than we thought. While that technically constitutes learning something about a character, it's not something that carries emotional weight or provides a strong resolution to this particular 22 minutes of storytelling; it's just the setup for future plot developments.
And what character stuff we got was mostly stuff we already knew -- M'Gann loves Connor, Wally's in love with Artemis, there's tension between Kaldur and Robin about leadership. We did see Connor make some progress toward reconciling with the Superman legacy, but that's the only significant consequence to the "dream" on a personal level, and even it feels inconclusive as long as Superman remains offstage.
Otherwise, the episode was well-made and had some effective moments. My favorite was the Iris West-Allen news report. It was cool getting the camera's-eye view of the whole thing, and I loved the subtle interplay between Iris and the Flash/Barry, the way they were trying to keep their relationship secret while on live TV but you could still see the little moments of affection.
I was wondering if anyone here who caught the episode noticed who the girl was in the sequence in the Cave next to Zatanna & Red Arrow, right before Tula & Garth tubed-in?
Also, I feel like it should be obvious, but was the blonde girl next to Barbara Gordon & Alfred Pennyworth later on Bette Kane?
Also, I feel like it should be obvious, but was the blonde girl next to Barbara Gordon & Alfred Pennyworth later on Bette Kane?
Yeah, I agree, even if I pegged what was going on from the first alien encounter. I liked J'onn's explanation of why they weren't that emotional over the losses early on.
I have to disagree a bit with Christopher on the characters. I thought it was interesting that it was Artemis not Connor that snapped Megan (add apostrophes as needed) and that J'onn didn't recover until everyone was gone. It showed how much she really cares for everyone. Plus Robin's manipulation and Wally's steely acceptance of his own fate were nice character beats.
^True, it wasn't a bad episode -- but if a DC/WB animated show tries to do an "it was all a dream" episode, then it's inevitably going to be compared to "Over the Edge," and so unless it's really something special, it's going to come up short. Not to mention that it's hard to do a story like that without it feeling like a cheat or a waste of time, so again, it has a high bar to surmount. The story had its merits, but for me it didn't manage to avoid seeming gimmicky. (Not to mention that the whole alien-invasion stuff felt like a rehash of the Justice League premiere episodes.)
^ Maybe it helps that I haven't seen most of the early Batman and wasn't into it at all at the time it was airing. I know it's considered great and I should catch up but I haven't gotten around to it.
^God... B:TAS is "early" Batman? Now I feel really old...
OK, so early DCAU, I grew up with Superfriends and Scooby Doo versions but I don't think they're applicable to anything but Brave and the Bold.
J
Jetfire
Guest
Interesting ep. I am guessing there is a reason they want to show that Miss Martian has a powerful mind?
If we're talking in terms of "Quality", then B:TAS is what I would consider "early" Batman.
Everything else that came before B:TAS was way too campy for my tastes.
Edit: Still wondering about the girl in the cave cameo...
Heck no. We're talking about Animated Series here.
Seems like it.
I was familiar with Icon from Milestone, but not his sidekick. Thanks.
In this week's episode, I loved the parts with the team coping with the aftermath of last week's simulation. This redeems that episode; like I said, in order for an "all a dream" story to work, it should have some real character impact, and here's where we get that impact. I'm surprised to see Dinah/Black Canary acting as the team's therapist; as far as I know, that's not a qualification she has in the comics. But Vanessa Marshall gave an incredible performance as Dinah here. I never knew she could be that good. She totally knocked it out of the park. At this point I'd be happy to see a whole series of Black Canary, Superhero Therapist.
The other subplot with Superboy was very... well, it was extremely Kirby. I mean, good grief, they threw in everything. I've vaguely heard of the Tomorrow People, but they've got to be the most obscure Kirby characters ever featured in animation outside of Batman: The Brave and the Bold -- and frankly I think they would've been a better fit for that show. They're so weird that the episode even had to make apologies for things like the "Cowboy" member of the group. And seriously -- they turn into a Megazord? The amazing thing is that this episode was actually able to make such a freaky concept almost fit the YJ universe and not feel too ludicrous. (And Greg Weisman brought aboard another Gargoyles veteran, Bill Fagerbakke as that "Bear" guy or whatever.) And man, that was a creepy character design for Desaad. Anyway, it seems like they're building toward a Darkseid storyline.
The other subplot with Superboy was very... well, it was extremely Kirby. I mean, good grief, they threw in everything. I've vaguely heard of the Tomorrow People, but they've got to be the most obscure Kirby characters ever featured in animation outside of Batman: The Brave and the Bold -- and frankly I think they would've been a better fit for that show. They're so weird that the episode even had to make apologies for things like the "Cowboy" member of the group. And seriously -- they turn into a Megazord? The amazing thing is that this episode was actually able to make such a freaky concept almost fit the YJ universe and not feel too ludicrous. (And Greg Weisman brought aboard another Gargoyles veteran, Bill Fagerbakke as that "Bear" guy or whatever.) And man, that was a creepy character design for Desaad. Anyway, it seems like they're building toward a Darkseid storyline.
