Was Zarabeth's species more Vulcan like physiologically? i.e., copper based blood? Some memory from the novels makes me think yes but I can't remember
Yesterday's Son, Time for Yesterday
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There was nothing in the episode to suggest that, but it was asserted in the Crispin novels to justify how Zarabeth could've borne Spock's son without the kind of advanced medical intervention that's generally assumed to be required for human-Vulcan pregnancies (posited in the 1974 Inside Star Trek record album and The Final Reflection, later verified in the Terra Prime episodes of Enterprise).
Thanks! I thought Zarabeth's species in the books was Vulcanoid biologically and as you stated it allowed for a normal birth in primitive environment. If I remember correctly, the nemesis of Zar was very large and physically much stronger than he in their battle which only makes sense if the species was similar to Vulcans.
Two of my favorite TOS novels by my favorite TOS author; sadly she is no longer with us.
She really fleshed out Zar's primitive world in "Time for Yesterday"; would have liked to see more stories set in that time period, but sadly not to be.
Have worn those paperbacks out over the years.
She really fleshed out Zar's primitive world in "Time for Yesterday"; would have liked to see more stories set in that time period, but sadly not to be.
Have worn those paperbacks out over the years.
From my old Lost Books page, available through the Internet Archive (https://web.archive.org/web/20141017111042id_/http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lostbooks.html#04ye):
Yesterday Saga (2004)
A.C. Crispin's first Star Trek novel, 1983's Yesterday's Son, was something of a phenomenon. A sequel to the original series episode "All Our Yesterdays," the book introduced Spock's son, Zar, who was born and lived in the distant past of the planet Sarpeidon. A sequel, Time for Yesterday, was published in 1988. Crispin's later Star Trek novels did not tie in to the Zar storyline. Then, back in December, 1999, on the old Pocket Books Star Trek discussion board, she announced:
On September 13, 2000, Crispin announced on Psi Phi that Paramount had approved the outline for the trilogy. On December 12, 2003, Bob Manojlovich posted (with her permission) an email from Crispin about the trilogy on Psi Phi. A couple of highlights from that email:
An article by Star Trek novel reviewer Michelle Erica Green, circa 2001, adds the following:
According to a December 2003 interview on SciFi.com, the trilogy was virtually finished. But on July 2, 2004, editor Marco Palmieri announced in a post on the TrekBBS, "Unfortunately, that project won't be going forward."
Yesterday Saga (2004)
A.C. Crispin's first Star Trek novel, 1983's Yesterday's Son, was something of a phenomenon. A sequel to the original series episode "All Our Yesterdays," the book introduced Spock's son, Zar, who was born and lived in the distant past of the planet Sarpeidon. A sequel, Time for Yesterday, was published in 1988. Crispin's later Star Trek novels did not tie in to the Zar storyline. Then, back in December, 1999, on the old Pocket Books Star Trek discussion board, she announced:
I'm putting the finishing touches on a proposal for a Star Trek trilogy that begins after the events in the sixth ST film, then takes Our Heroes (and a special guest star a few of you oldsters may remember) back to ancient Vulcan in the time of Surak.
On September 13, 2000, Crispin announced on Psi Phi that Paramount had approved the outline for the trilogy. On December 12, 2003, Bob Manojlovich posted (with her permission) an email from Crispin about the trilogy on Psi Phi. A couple of highlights from that email:
There will be three new books in the Star Trek "Yesterday Saga." Right now the working titles are Return to Yesterday, Yesterday's Vulcan, and Yesterday's Destiny.
The three new books will feature Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Zar going back in time to war-torn Vulcan during the time of Surak, which is also the time of the political/social/ethical schism that brought about the Romulans. Surak himself will be one of the main characters in the books. The characters go back in time to save modern-day Vulcan from being totally destroyed by the actions of a well-meaning, but fanatic, time traveler.
An article by Star Trek novel reviewer Michelle Erica Green, circa 2001, adds the following:
Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Zar -- Spock's son with Zarabeth from "All Our Yesterdays" -- go back to the time of Surak, "because somebody has messed with Vulcan history and the planet Vulcan is dead. The first book is called Return To Yesterday. We'll get to see what Vulcan was like before logic. Dr. McCoy has a raging affair with a Vulcan. The idea of getting to see McCoy with pointed ears just cracks me up."
According to a December 2003 interview on SciFi.com, the trilogy was virtually finished. But on July 2, 2004, editor Marco Palmieri announced in a post on the TrekBBS, "Unfortunately, that project won't be going forward."
It boggles the mind that AC Crispin has a "virtually finished" Trek trilogy just gathering dust in a storeroom or something.
I wonder if there's any hope someone could finish whatever bits were left undone and get this released someday.
I can't believe it wouldn't be profitable even if they just released them as ebooks if nothing else.
Anybody have any idea why this was never released?
I wonder if there's any hope someone could finish whatever bits were left undone and get this released someday.
I can't believe it wouldn't be profitable even if they just released them as ebooks if nothing else.
Anybody have any idea why this was never released?
Although the interview stated the trilogy was "virtually finished", AFAIK only the first part was ready to be sent to Marco. (One of Ann's beta reader's conversation of the day included mention that the manuscript was much shorter than promised and ended on a cliffhanger.) The original contract was, of course, no longer valid, since Ann had missed her deadline by several years (ie. four years after the trilogy was announced) and the original commissioning editor had moved on long before.
I think the main problem was that it had been a loooong time since the first two Zar books. Did Pocket and the editors of the day really want to do three more? And what happens if the first book of the new trilogy failed to sell well? (Fans reacted badly when endings never materialised for the Carey "Challenger" storyline or the Shatner "Academy" storyline.)
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As far as I know, she only finished the first book in the trilogy. I have a copy of both the manuscript and the outline for the trilogy as a whole. (I was sent these confidentially back in the day. Don't ask me for them, I won't share them.) The manuscript for the first book runs, I think, about 55,000 words. Compared to the outline, it gets about two-thirds of the way through what Ann projected as the first book in her proposal.
I recently read Yesterday's Son, and thought it was a fun, quick read. I quite like Crispin's prose and general story telling, and really enjoyed a trilogy of Star Wars novels she wrote back in the 90's. We can only guess about if she would have been consistent with Duane's Vulcan/Rihannsu continuity details, but she reportedly linked a lot of continuity details from a lot of 80's TOS novels, so maybe consistency would have been very likely. A whole trilogy seems a bit ambitious, though. Particularly if it was taking too long, maybe it would have been better to streamline the story and do it as one of those Giant Novels.
I would have like to have seen these books. Although the last ST books I regularly bought were the Vanguard novels, I would have snapped these up if they had appeared.
I've got what Allyn refers to (and like he says, don't ask), and there's a lot less than the official story suggests.
Was John Ordover the commissioning editor on that trilogy? He definitely had different tastes from the other editors at Pocket back then, so if he was gone and the author was running late, there may not have been much goodwill left.
Was John Ordover the commissioning editor on that trilogy? He definitely had different tastes from the other editors at Pocket back then, so if he was gone and the author was running late, there may not have been much goodwill left.
I haven't looked at any of the material in the past five years or so, so my memory is shaky. That said, I remember that it was broadly consistent with Spock's World and its vision of Surak-era Vulcan.
That wasn't John Ordover's style. He liked trilogies, because they sold better. I remember him saying at the time that he wished he'd published The 34th Rule as a trilogy instead of as a single giant book because it would have sold better.
I'm about 98% certain it was a John Ordover project, and when he left Marco was given the task of cleaning up John's unfinished projects. Some things that were done, like Engines of Destiny, were published. Some things that weren't, like the Zar trilogy, were taken off the boards.
I'd still love it if the book could be finished up and published with another author taking co-author credit, either managing to resolve the story in one book or the co author doing the other two books in the trilogy with Crispin's outlines as a guideline.
I realize it will probably never happen but it would still be pretty awesome to get another Trek/Zar book by Crispin. I have such fond memories of her other books.
Any chance you can tell us anything else about the books? If nothing else, just rub it in my face how good it is lol.
Ann sent me the manuscript (I didn't get the outline though) lo these many years ago, and I read it with relish. More than anything, it struck me as something like a Star Trek/Darkover mash-up.
Which was fine by me; I'm a fan of both. But it was super-short and ended on a wicked cliffhanger. What's there is good. There's just not enough there.
Which was fine by me; I'm a fan of both. But it was super-short and ended on a wicked cliffhanger. What's there is good. There's just not enough there.
Beyond what's already been said by myself and others, I don't feel that it's appropriate to. The trilogy was unfinished, the book that exists was unpublished, the cancellation of the trilogy was painful for Crispin. I wouldn't characterize her as a friend, but she was a friend to many friends of mine, and I had a memorable breakfast with her and her husband at a convention a few years before her death. I just don't feel it's my place to talk about the book. I feel like I would be betraying a confidence.
I am very happy to have found this thread. Ms. Crispin's novels were a joy for me while I was growing up and I continue to read the two Yesterday Saga novels frequently. They are among my favorite of all books. In particular, I find that I cannot read Time for Yesterday without tearing up at several scenes. Ms. Crispin's writing is powerful and moving. I was very saddened to hear of her passing. I wish I could have met her at a convention to thank her for her wonderful work and the many hours of joy her novels have brought me.
I had long wondered about additional stories featuring Zar. The references at the end of TFY when the Guardian converses with Zar and assures him that the Guardian will be able to find him left open the door for future time traveling stories with Zar. I've often imagined more adventures with Zar who I would expect to find now happily married to Wynn and raising a family of their own. I've played out possible scenes in my head where Zar encounters an even more crusty McCoy and elder Spock after both have finished their adventures with the Enterprise. Or perhaps we could find Kirk, Spock and McCoy earlier around the time of Star Trek VI. I'm happy to hear that Ms. Crispin worked on a sequel though I am saddened that it never came to fruition. I'd love to know more of what happened to some of the characters, particularly Wynn and Zar. However, knowing that Ms. Crispin felt that more stories were possible warms my heart and fires up my imagination. I'm glad to be able to share the passion for these novels with other fans.
I had long wondered about additional stories featuring Zar. The references at the end of TFY when the Guardian converses with Zar and assures him that the Guardian will be able to find him left open the door for future time traveling stories with Zar. I've often imagined more adventures with Zar who I would expect to find now happily married to Wynn and raising a family of their own. I've played out possible scenes in my head where Zar encounters an even more crusty McCoy and elder Spock after both have finished their adventures with the Enterprise. Or perhaps we could find Kirk, Spock and McCoy earlier around the time of Star Trek VI. I'm happy to hear that Ms. Crispin worked on a sequel though I am saddened that it never came to fruition. I'd love to know more of what happened to some of the characters, particularly Wynn and Zar. However, knowing that Ms. Crispin felt that more stories were possible warms my heart and fires up my imagination. I'm glad to be able to share the passion for these novels with other fans.
But, as it turned out, it probably wasn't "virtually finished". Maybe the plotting was virtually finished? The first book's manuscript, as submitted, was supposedly shorter than contracted (and much shorter than the thicker novels coming out at the time), missed its deadline by years, and ended on a cliffhanger.
I was able to read some of it and was underwhelmed. I had loved YS and TfY. I remember the issue caused her a lot of stress, and her years of inactivity on the manuscript were probably just as frustrating to her.
At the time, I remember thinking, just go for one novel, not three.
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Even though I just read all of CLB's DTI books to date, I can't recall whether he included any nods to Crispin's "Yesterday" books or not.
And somehow, all news of Ms. Crispin's battle with cancer, and her demise, seems to have escaped me.
And somehow, all news of Ms. Crispin's battle with cancer, and her demise, seems to have escaped me.
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