Yesterday's Enterprise

[Sec31Mike]

This was a complicated episode. Anytime you deal with time travel it is complicated. I think any inconsistencies arose due to the episode's time constraint.

I really liked this episode. It accomplished a few important things. First was the showing of the Ent-C, the next was showing Tasha(Who died uselessly and could have turned out to be a kickass character), and it set in motion so many other episodes premise with the creation of Sela.

I always like episodes where they can step out of the box briefly and explore something darker, regardless of whether the premise is spectacularly written.

 

[Praetor]

Slightly OT, I think had 'Yesterday's Enterprise' been saved for the movies, it would have ultimately involved the Enterprise-A being pulled out of time to the Enterprise-D's time before the Khitomer conference (or some other important thing) and thus rewriting history. And they could have still called it 'Generations'

 

[Anwar]

If I did it as a movie, I'd have explained that the ENT-A sacrificed itself to save a Klingon Colony soon after Khitomer, which neutralized all major Klingon opposition to the Accords and also Kirk died in the battle, fulfilling the "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives" speech from TVH.

Removing them from that time resulted in the Klingons being angered over this betrayal that the Federation refused to help them right after the Accords, leading to war. The Klingons lost but not before convincing the Romulans to join in, and the two combined caused a war for decades which also led to the Cardassian Wars happening decades before they were supposed to.

So by TNG's time the entire galaxy has gone to hell with the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians and the Federation all being at war with each other simultaneously, so to explain how the Federation survived a 70 year war (because it wasn't focused on them anymore), but now all the galactic powers are near-collapse.

I'd also make the final battle be between three K'Vorts (led by Captain Worf), 2 Romulan Warbirds (commanded by Tomalok) and 1 Cardassian cruiser (captained by Gul Macet) all attacking the Ent-D and each other.

The Ent-D would destroy all of them, but Workf would destroy the Ent-D with a kamikaze strike.

 

[nx1701g]

Wasn't the episode written along the lines of a way of showing a more heroic death for Tasha?

 

[Trekker4747]

nx1701g said:
Wasn't the episode written along the lines of a way of showing a more heroic death for Tasha?

I think that was just a happy side-effect.

IIRC they weren't even considering brining Tasha back, they where figuring on either sticking Wesley there or just getting an extra/"red shirt" but then someone thought it'd be neat to bring Denise back and since she was willing they went with it.

 

[Computer]

Anwar said:
If I did it as a movie, I'd have explained that the ENT-A sacrificed itself to save a Klingon Colony soon after Khitomer, which neutralized all major Klingon opposition to the Accords and also Kirk died in the battle, fulfilling the "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives" speech from TVH.

Removing them from that time resulted in the Klingons being angered over this betrayal that the Federation refused to help them right after the Accords, leading to war. The Klingons lost but not before convincing the Romulans to join in, and the two combined caused a war for decades which also led to the Cardassian Wars happening decades before they were supposed to.

So by TNG's time the entire galaxy has gone to hell with the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians and the Federation all being at war with each other simultaneously, so to explain how the Federation survived a 70 year war (because it wasn't focused on them anymore), but now all the galactic powers are near-collapse.

I'd also make the final battle be between three K'Vorts (led by Captain Worf), 2 Romulan Warbirds (commanded by Tomalok) and 1 Cardassian cruiser (captained by Gul Macet) all attacking the Ent-D and each other.

The Ent-D would destroy all of them, but Workf would destroy the Ent-D with a kamikaze strike.

Now theres a movie id pay to see!

But id like to see the same temporal rift with the Enterprise-A emerge and fight along side the E-D.

 

[Forbin]

Anwar said:
Picard wouldn't have known that the Ent-C was meant to go back until Guinan told him. He only had Data check to see if they could go back after she told him.

If Guinan hadn't told him, then Picard would've just gone "It's too bad you didn't save the Klingons. Oh well, might as well get you adjusted to living in this war-zone. Well take you to a Starbase." Because he wouldn't have known that time was "wrong" and wouldn't have checked to see if the anomaly was symmetrical.

And it could have been written so Picard The Hero figured out the solution all by himself. I'm sorry your imagination can't break free of needing to be told what to do.

 

[Anwar]

It added development to Guinan and showed that Picard was conflicted over the choice. We wouldn't have seen Picard manage to externally express his reservatons about the plan without Guinan to argue with.

 

[Unicron]

Forbin said:

My point is, they didn't need to know "the one true timeline" at all. All we needed was Picard's conversation with Capt Garret in the sickbay: She tells him what happened; he (our smart, noble hero) realizes that sending the C back just might avert 20 years of war; she agrees it's worth a try. Bingo. Guinan become redundant and 10 minutes of airtime opens up for real character performances instead of mystical plot exposition.

I disagree. Without knowing about the "correct" timeline, Picard would have simply concluded that there was nothing wrong with the Enterprise-C being in the present, or the fact that the Federation was going to be annihilated as a result. He needed an outside source (Guinan in this case) to tell him otherwise.

For that matter, Captain Garrett only agreed to return to the past when Picard told her that the Federation defeat was inevitable. She had already planned to stay and help defend against the Klingons.

 

[Huntingdon]

I don't see why he would needan outside source. He would know that the Federation was heading for defeat - having a fair amount of historical knowledge he would be aware that the C's failure was a pivotal event leading to the war. Seems a logical step to send her back to where she might make a difference.

 

[Unicron]

What historical knowledge are you referring to? It's stated in the ep that there is no record of the E-C fighting at Narendra III, because it had disappeared. So Picard has no knowledge of how pivotal her role was. And even with Guinan, he challenged to explain how this grim timeline was any less "proper" than the correct one. She couldn't do that easily.

 

[Huntingdon]

Garret would tell him what the ship was doing before it came through the rift. Picard would know that after that tensions got rapidly worse.

Ergo - if the C goes back then it might make a difference.

If it stays in the present/future then it won't make any difference.

If the C fails then nothing will have been lost and things will still develop as normal.

It's basic logic and quite within the capabilities of Picard to reason out, or even your random crewmember of the week.

 

[Unicron]

Eh, maybe. Garrett did exactly that in the ep, and Picard was confused because it didn't mesh with the history in that timeline. And he was very reluctant to send them back initially, because he knew it was a death sentence. It was only after realizing those deaths were necessary that he agreed to follow Guinan's advice.

It's much like the Age of Apocalypse in X-Men. It's since been retconned as another alternate reality, but originally it was a radically altered version of the 616 Earth. It was triggered by Xavier's accidental death, preventing the X-Men from being formed and giving Apocalypse an opportunity to launch an assault on the world much earlier. As a result, the AoA Earth is pretty hellish, with Apocalypse ruling most of it.

The point is, the only reason any of the altered characters got an inkling that this reality was "wrong" was because Bishop wasn't affected by the changes in the timeline caused by Xaver's death. He was immune only because he is a temporal anomaly himself, and thus the only one who had any memories of the "correct" timeline. The same is true of Guinan, even though she relies on intuition rather than memories. Without these outside influences, the main characters aren't going to know any better.

 

[Vulcanian]

I liked the new look of it all

It's like going into the MU in TNG.

 

[nx1701g]

Unicron said:
Eh, maybe. Garrett did exactly that in the ep, and Picard was confused because it didn't mesh with the history in that timeline. And he was very reluctant to send them back initially, because he knew it was a death sentence. It was only after realizing those deaths were necessary that he agreed to follow Guinan's advice.

It's much like the Age of Apocalypse in X-Men. It's since been retconned as another alternate reality, but originally it was a radically altered version of the 616 Earth. It was triggered by Xavier's accidental death, preventing the X-Men from being formed and giving Apocalypse an opportunity to launch an assault on the world much earlier. As a result, the AoA Earth is pretty hellish, with Apocalypse ruling most of it.

The point is, the only reason any of the altered characters got an inkling that this reality was "wrong" was because Bishop wasn't affected by the changes in the timeline caused by Xaver's death. He was immune only because he is a temporal anomaly himself, and thus the only one who had any memories of the "correct" timeline. The same is true of Guinan, even though she relies on intuition rather than memories. Without these outside influences, the main characters aren't going to know any better.

Excellent summary, I knew that there was an X-Men storyline that kinda fit this storyline.

 

[Tactical Drone]

I loved the episode too, like the steps on the bridge, the wall maps in the room Guinan and Picard were talking in, and I always thought it would have been eerie if the Klingon commander ordering them to surrender had been Worf.

Anwar said:
If I did it as a movie, I'd have explained that the ENT-A sacrificed itself to save a Klingon Colony soon after Khitomer, which neutralized all major Klingon opposition to the Accords and also Kirk died in the battle, fulfilling the "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives" speech from TVH.

Removing them from that time resulted in the Klingons being angered over this betrayal that the Federation refused to help them right after the Accords, leading to war. The Klingons lost but not before convincing the Romulans to join in, and the two combined caused a war for decades which also led to the Cardassian Wars happening decades before they were supposed to.

So by TNG's time the entire galaxy has gone to hell with the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians and the Federation all being at war with each other simultaneously, so to explain how the Federation survived a 70 year war (because it wasn't focused on them anymore), but now all the galactic powers are near-collapse.

I'd also make the final battle be between three K'Vorts (led by Captain Worf), 2 Romulan Warbirds (commanded by Tomalok) and 1 Cardassian cruiser (captained by Gul Macet) all attacking the Ent-D and each other.

The Ent-D would destroy all of them, but Work would destroy the Ent-D with a kamikaze strike.

great idea!

 

[Unicron]

Yeah, I realized I made a small goof - Magneto did fulfill Xavier's dream by forming the X-Men himself, but only after Apocalypse had started his assault on civilization. So there is a version of the team in that reality, but not quite on the same level as in the normal timeline. And the sanity of some members like Colossus is questionable, at best.

 

[Keith1701]

Anwar said:
I liked the Bridge, but I do think that if they kept that design for the whole show they'd have to brighten the lights a little. But the black floors and blue/grey coloring were better than the tan and carpeted floors.

I thought the Bridge was very well done too.... :thumbsup:

 

[Cutter John]

* daydreams about the final Ent-D vs Klingon battle using movie quality SFX * Da-rool.

Always struck me as odd in that ep that the Federation flagship didn't have any sort of escort. No wonder the Feds were losing.