Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

[Matt4511]

In the prime timeline, during that same general periord, the Federation was also at war with the Talarians, the Tzenkethi and the Cardassians. It's not unreasonable to assume that that was also the case in the YE timeline. That's four fronts.

Indeed, with the Klingons keeping Starfleet busy, the other three comparatively minor powers may have been even more aggressive. Perhaps they were even working together. And maybe others joined the pile on, too: Tholians and Ferengi, for instance. Not to mention twenty year's worth of worlds that joined the UFP in the prime timeline deciding to maybe hold off a bit in the YE one, lest they pick a losing side.

Maybe not. Who knows. But it's not JUST the Klingons. With four fronts to worry about (admittedly perhaps not all at the same time) and a Neutral Zone to watch, the Federation has still been able to hang on for twenty years.

Not bad, really.

 

[Ethros]

^ I wonder too if the YE timeline has continued, would the Borg have still arrived in Federation at the end of the year (2266, end of season 3, ie BOBW.) As if so they'd be fairly screwed then.

Interesting if they'd have encountered Q in that timeline and the events of Q Who would have occurred. But even without the System J-25 incident the Borg still might have shown up... would the Borg have still recieved the transmission from 2153 in that timeline? Interesting, as if you believe in a singular timeline maybe they would... or if the Hansens still went to Delta Quadrant in the YE timeline...
Ha, things to muddle the mind

 

[Lance]

I absolutely LOVE the YE universe, especially the lighting. I have always said I wished they spent an arc or season over there. One of my biggest problems with BermanEraModernTrek is how 24th century has magic box tech up th wazoo, so nobody can run out of bullets or be unable to recrystalize dilithium ... without those limits it is hard to see drama in some of the situations, yet the YE verse seemed to have had supply issues, which I can believe a lot easier than most 'real' TNG.

In recent years, I've found myself quite taken by the fan theory that the YE timeline is the 'real' one, and a quite logical continuation of the more militarized Starfleet of the movies. Although it runs contrary to the thrust of what the script itself tries to tell us, there's a part of me which definitely likes to think the YE timeline is not an 'alternate', but is rather the way history naturally unfolded in the TNG timeline, until they encountered the anomaly and sent the 1701-C back to change the past. Resulting in the 'peace time' TNG that we're all more familiar with.

From 'our' perspective as viewers, it's shown as being quite different. But it's possible we were watching an alternative timeline version all along, and that YE is the only episode which shows us how it "really" is.

 

[dub]

I absolutely LOVE the YE universe, especially the lighting.

Yes! So much richer than the "let's flood everything with light because there are no shadows in the 24th century" look!

 

[DonIago]

I find I can't really vote on this, because while I find the large-scale timeline events plausible enough, Our Heroes essentially all ending up together regardless seems highly unlikely.

Hell, it can be argued that it's enough of a stretch that Our Heroes end up together in the Abramsverse, and I think that divergence point was a lot less turbulent than the YE one.

 

[trevanian]

I absolutely LOVE the YE universe, especially the lighting. I have always said I wished they spent an arc or season over there. One of my biggest problems with BermanEraModernTrek is how 24th century has magic box tech up th wazoo, so nobody can run out of bullets or be unable to recrystalize dilithium ... without those limits it is hard to see drama in some of the situations, yet the YE verse seemed to have had supply issues, which I can believe a lot easier than most 'real' TNG.

In recent years, I've found myself quite taken by the fan theory that the YE timeline is the 'real' one, and a quite logical continuation of the more militarized Starfleet of the movies. Although it runs contrary to the thrust of what the script itself tries to tell us, there's a part of me which definitely likes to think the YE timeline is not an 'alternate', but is rather the way history naturally unfolded in the TNG timeline, until they encountered the anomaly and sent the 1701-C back to change the past. Resulting in the 'peace time' TNG that we're all more familiar with.

From 'our' perspective as viewers, it's shown as being quite different. But it's possible we were watching an alternative timeline version all along, and that YE is the only episode which shows us how it "really" is.

Which would allow me to justify placing BermanVerse alongside AbramsVerse as being 'wrong' ... hmm, interesting, I like it ... but that would mean having to treat and think of DS9 the way I think of the other shows, and I just have too many good feelings about parts of DS9 to relegate it to that scrap heap.

To bring it all back round to YE while still addressing TheAbramsThing's superovermilitarizedretro Starfleet, I suppose you could say that Sela kept trying to undermine things after UNIFICATION and that maybe she sabotaged Spock's odd little ship, thinking she'd succeed in killing him after he saved Romulus during the strange killer nova thing that sets up TREK09. That wouldn't account for how oddly retro things look on the KELVIN (what does?), but it would kind of cover everything else that follows.

 

[USS Excelsior]

It's far fetched that the ENT-C would appear just when a ship happened to stumble across the anamoly, and it being the ENT-D no doubt, and in both timelines!

 

[dub]

I find I can't really vote on this, because while I find the large-scale timeline events plausible enough, Our Heroes essentially all ending up together regardless seems highly unlikely.

Haha, you know, that would have been a funny way to "kill off" or replace a character if an actor was leaving a show on bad terms. Do a time travel episode, change something ever so slightly, then when the normal timeline is "restored" at the end of the episode, that character does not exist anymore due to changes made to the timeline. Nobody mentions it because, well, if the person never existed then how can anyone remember? Except maybe Guinan giving a funny look at the end of the episode saying "something is STILL not right here..." [fade to black] [executive producer credits]

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Haha, you know, that would have been a funny way to "kill off" or replace a character if an actor was leaving a show on bad terms. Do a time travel episode, change something ever so slightly, then when the normal timeline is "restored" at the end of the episode, that character does not exist anymore due to changes made to the timeline. Nobody mentions it because, well, if the person never existed then how can anyone remember? Except maybe Guinan giving a funny look at the end of the episode saying "something is STILL not right here..." [fade to black] [executive producer credits]

You should read Christopher's DTI: Watching the Clock. Something like this actually happens.

--Sran

 

[Hartzilla2007]

One theory I have --

The Klingons already invested in a huge military that lasted long enough to outfight the Federation in a 20 year war.

They've been probably building it for decades--it looks like they don't waste any ships.

It would be no surprise at all to me to find Chang had STiD-style secret shipyard churning out BoPs, or perhaps simply rebuilding and rearming decommisisoned vessels.

Even if the government was going broke, somebody like Chang could broker arms deals in exchange for illegal stuff or stolen goods, so there'd be a way around for him re: the political situation ... so long as you didn't have Fed peace issues in the way.

Plus whatever they did to make the Bird of Prey fire while cloaked could possibly also be done to their already existing in service Birds of Prey.

^ I wonder too if the YE timeline has continued, would the Borg have still arrived in Federation at the end of the year (2266, end of season 3, ie BOBW.) As if so they'd be fairly screwed then.

Interesting if they'd have encountered Q in that timeline and the events of Q Who would have occurred. But even without the System J-25 incident the Borg still might have shown up...

Well Q Who also gave the Borg credit for destroying the Federation and Romulan outposts along the Neutral Zone so they were already checking the Alpha Quadrant out before running into the Enterprise.

 

[Gotham Central]

I find I can't really vote on this, because while I find the large-scale timeline events plausible enough, Our Heroes essentially all ending up together regardless seems highly unlikely.

Hell, it can be argued that it's enough of a stretch that Our Heroes end up together in the Abramsverse, and I think that divergence point was a lot less turbulent than the YE one.

If you assume that each of these people were the best at their jobs, its not unreasonable to assume that they would end up serving on the flagship.

 

[Gotham Central]

I think that people have an unrealistic view of the relations between states and issues of peace and war. Ultimately treaties mean nothing of the conditions for peace are not sustained over time.

As an example, during the course of the Cold War, the US and the USSR signed multiple treaties with each other in order to regulate relations between the two and prevent war. That, however, never guaranteed that peace would endure indefinitely. The only thing that really ended the Cold War was the formal collapse of the Soviet Union. Yet, here we are more than 20 years since the end of the Cold War, and the Russians still display an extraordinary level of hostility toward the US and indeed use every means at their disposal to proverbially poke us in the eye whenever possible. It does not mean that we're going to war anytime soon, but it does not mean that peace is guaranteed either.

Indeed one could argue that a more desperate Klingon Empire, in the wake of the Praxis incident could have been even more dangerous. We know that despite the detente between the Klingons and the Federation, relations between the Empire and the Romulans continued to deteriorate. That could account for the Klingon's massive military build up. The incident at Narendra III proved to the Klingons that the Federation could be a useful and valued partner in checking the Romulans. Conversely, if the Federation had not intervened and the Romulans backed off anyway, that would have left a more militarized Klingon Empire to take out its frustration on a Federation that ws focused on other things (like the Cardassians).

 

[F. King Daniel]

By the way, for fans of the YE timeline, one just like it (except for the events of YE) is among the four featured in Peter David's excellent Q-Squared.

Best bit? A Tasha who didn't die at the end of season one meets YE-timeline Tasha - "Oh my god I look like a boy with that haircut!"

 

[Armored Saint]

Also that 2nd Season episode when Picard was in the shuttle with Wesley it was suggested that they were still enemies with the Klingons when he graduated from the Academy.

Not exactly.
WESLEY: Was this before the Klingons joined the Federation?
Except if it's the "You're with us or against us".

If you assume that each of these people were the best at their jobs, its not unreasonable to assume that they would end up serving on the flagship.

Yep, except for Riker. Starfleet wouldn't let him refuse a captaincy. Of course, for the story, it's pretty dramatic to see him killed in action. (But where the hell these rocks come from? It's not surprising the Federation is going to lose this war if they put cut-throating rocks in their explosive consoles.)

 

[The Wormhole]

(But where the hell these rocks come from? It's not surprising the Federation is going to lose this war if they put cut-throating rocks in their explosive consoles.)

Even weirder, the Enterprise C also had those rocks, you can see them when Captain Garret was killed. Obviously, knowing of the Enterprise C's destruction is what helped Starfleet in the Prime Universe redesign consoles so that they didn't shoot rocks into the air when they blew. The YE timeline just though the C disappeared and so twenty years of rocks shooting out of consoles.

Or perhaps it's a metaphor for the Klingons and the Federation were fighting each other with sticks and stones. That's assuming when the Klingons consoles blew they shot out pieces of wood for some reason.

 

[Gotham Central]

(But where the hell these rocks come from? It's not surprising the Federation is going to lose this war if they put cut-throating rocks in their explosive consoles.)

Even weirder, the Enterprise C also had those rocks, you can see them when Captain Garret was killed. Obviously, knowing of the Enterprise C's destruction is what helped Starfleet in the Prime Universe redesign consoles so that they didn't shoot rocks into the air when they blew. The YE timeline just though the C disappeared and so twenty years of rocks shooting out of consoles.

Or perhaps it's a metaphor for the Klingons and the Federation were fighting each other with sticks and stones. That's assuming when the Klingons consoles blew they shot out pieces of wood for some reason.

I always figured that those rocks were broken insulation. Hardened foam etc.

 

[The Wormhole]

Still, this is the only episode in all of Star Trek to feature the exploding rocks. Demands explanation, I should think.

 

[Gotham Central]

Still, this is the only episode in all of Star Trek to feature the exploding rocks. Demands explanation, I should think.

Didn't we see "rubble" on the bridge when the ship was attacked in Generations? In fact there was a lot of it on the deck after the saucer crashed.

 

[trevanian]

Still, this is the only episode in all of Star Trek to feature the exploding rocks. Demands explanation, I should think.

Well THE APPLE had exploding rocks but that was on a planet so it made a bit of sense.

Yeah, GEN had a lot of that, too wonder if David CArson brought them from home or something.

 

[T'Girl]

But where the hell these rocks come from

I never took those to be "rocks," largely because they don't look like rocks. Chunks of plastic (which in real life they were) from the wall and ceiling coverings.

I mean really guys ... rocks?