XI's makers mess up their history/continuity

[EJA]

I've read that on the commentary track for ST XI, the makers of the movie say they reckon that Kirk and Spock's first meeting in the prime timeline happened the same way it does in XI's alternate timeline, with Kirk cheating on the Kobayashi Maru and meeting Spock at the subsequent hearing. This is blatantly wrong, as they're forgetting that in the prime timeline, a) Kirk entered Starfleet Academy much earlier than he does in XI, and b) At the time the original Kirk cheated, Spock Prime would've either been still a cadet or was serving on the USS Enterprise, and therefore being unable to supervise the Kobayashi Maru.

 

[iguana_tonante]

This is really important.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Oh noes! The canon is dead because of the commentary track!

Actually, it could work just fine. Spock could have worked as an academy instructor on Earth and programmed the KM before he joined Pike's Enterprise, or between five-year missions.

Kirk enters the academy in the Prime timeline earlier than he does in STXI in the novels and the Star Trek Chronology book, neither of which are canon, and the latter has already been massively invalidated by First Contact and Enterprise. There is nothing in the canon to say when ShatnerKirk joined SFA. It could have been any time between 16 (IIRC Peter Preston's age in TWOK was 14) and 22. All we know is he served on the Republic, the Farragut, spent five years at the academy and was an instructor to Garry Mitchell and was Enterprise captain in 2264.

 

[Pauln6]

We know that that Spock was a lieutenant on Enterprise in 2254 (when he was 23?) and that he served with Pike for 11 years. Since Kirk took over Enterprise in 2264 it seems probable that Spock entered Starfleet at 18, graduated after the standard 4 years and was posted under Pike as a first assignment. However TOS Spock was a computer expert and never took the test himself so it is entirely possible that he was asked to program the scenario that was in usage at the time.

Spock is about a year older than Kirk and Kirk spent some time at the Acadamy as an instructor so there is scope in there for them to meet both before and after Spock graduated, plus Kirk took the test 3 times.

 

[Agenda]

I just go with it.

 

[Captain Rob]

Yeah, What he said.^

I always figured only the Command track people took the Kobayashi Maru test. It had one problem. You can't simulate fear in the face of certain death. Everyone knows it's a simulation. Always hated that line in the movie.
Kirk had to be teaching if he was a LT and still at the Academy. Or in Command school after graduating. Wasn't Saavik a LT? I could definitely see Kirk teaching while taking additional courses. Teaching undergrads might even be required for Command track officers.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I'd hate to be in NuChekovs class. He'd always be yelling "I can do that! I can do that!" and taking over during the tests <grin>

 

[Rush Limborg]

Well, Chekov Prime blew up his ship when he took the KM, remember....

 

[FarStrider]

Where did you read this? Have you listened to the commentary, or is this just hearsay? Harve Bennett's Star Fleet Academy script wanted them to be cadets together, and basically best friends (totally invalidating early TOS where Kirk didn't like Spock, and wanted Gary Mitchell to be his first officer). Ultimately, it doesn't matter when Kirk first met Spock in the prime timeline. Star Trek fans have always been adept at making up continuity where the canon fails to. . . it is part of being a true Trekkie. . .so, let me add my 2 cents. . in the Alternative Universe, the Enterprise wasn't built in 2246 (No Capt. Robert April and his CMO wife Sarah. . . no 11 year mission for Spock, Number One is now captain of her own ship somewhere) Pike and Spock are assigned to the Academy until the Enterprise is completed. . . in the Prime Universe, Spock never took the Kobayashi Maru because he was not a command candidate and was out on the Enterprise, in the AU he never took the test because he wasn't a command candidate and took over programming it after he graduated. . .he was at the Academy as an instructor and programmer, and met some of the crew while they were students, 8-10 years earlier than he originally did. . . Alternative Universe is Alternate. . . .


~FS

 

[Captrek]

Harve Bennett's Star Fleet Academy script wanted them to be cadets together, and basically best friends (totally invalidating early TOS where Kirk didn't like Spock, and wanted Gary Mitchell to be his first officer).

Considering that Spock addressed his captain as “Jim,” I think it’s safe to assume they were friends. But in some situations Spock’s logic comes across as particularly cold-blooded and upsets Kirk, which is what Kirk was expressing. It doesn’t mean he disliked Spock overall.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

This is blatantly wrong...original Kirk cheated, Spock Prime would've either been still a cadet or was serving on the USS Enterprise, and therefore being unable to supervise the Kobayashi Maru.

Nah, you're wrong there.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Commentary tracks aren't canon. Gotta be on the screen. So don't stress.

 

[number6]

This is blatantly wrong...original Kirk cheated, Spock Prime would've either been still a cadet or was serving on the USS Enterprise, and therefore being unable to supervise the Kobayashi Maru.

Nah, you're wrong there.

Indeed. There is nothing in Trek continuity that precludes Kirk and Spock's meeting as depicted in this film.

 

[Sabataage]

They mererly suggested it, not unequivicably carved it into a stone tablet from the peak of Kirk's Rock. I think their point was, if you were going to dramatize how Kirk and Spock first met, that's how it should be done. Have them meet at the Academy somehow (if not as classmates), have them not like each other at first, but eventually earn one another's respect. Many great love stories begin ironically enough with mutual hatred or indifference.

 

[Destructor]

Captain Aubrey and Stephen Maturin also hated each other when they first met!

 

[EJA]

I still can't believe that the way things happened in XI was the same way they did in the prime reality. For one thing, we know from dialogue in TOS "A Private Little War" that Kirk Prime was already a lieutenant and in active service in 2255, the same year that NuKirk enrolled at the Academy in the JJ-verse, so Kirk Prime would have to have beaten the Kobayashi Maru some time earlier. I don't believe that Spock Prime could have been programming the Kobayashi Maru in the 2250s in the prime timeline; he enrolled at the Academy in 2249, and assuming he graduated around 2253, I imagine he would've been sent straight to Pike's Enterprise where we find him a year later in TOS "The Cage." I'm not saying that Kirk Prime and Spock Prime never occasionally met while at the Academy, I just don't reckon their first encounter was the same as depicted in XI. The only way it could have happened is if Spock Prime was overseeing the simulation while still a cadet, which I find unlikely. And if you listen to the dialogue in ST II, the way Spock describes Kirk's cheating incident sounds as though he wasn't directly involved at the time, it was just something he heard about.

Someone should do a comparative timeline chart for Kirk and Spock Prime and NuKirk and NuSpock.

 

[Pauln6]

I still can't believe that the way things happened in XI was the same way they did in the prime reality. For one thing, we know from dialogue in TOS "A Private Little War" that Kirk Prime was already a lieutenant and in active service in 2255, the same year that NuKirk enrolled at the Academy in the JJ-verse, so Kirk Prime would have to have beaten the Kobayashi Maru some time earlier. I don't believe that Spock Prime could have been programming the Kobayashi Maru in the 2250s in the prime timeline; he enrolled at the Academy in 2249, and assuming he graduated around 2253, I imagine he would've been sent straight to Pike's Enterprise where we find him a year later in TOS "The Cage." I'm not saying that Kirk Prime and Spock Prime never occasionally met while at the Academy, I just don't reckon their first encounter was the same as depicted in XI. The only way it could have happened is if Spock Prime was overseeing the simulation while still a cadet, which I find unlikely. And if you listen to the dialogue in ST II, the way Spock describes Kirk's cheating incident sounds as though he wasn't directly involved at the time, it was just something he heard about.

Someone should do a comparative timeline chart for Kirk and Spock Prime and NuKirk and NuSpock.

Don't assume that Kirk would have been prevented from going back and taking the test again after graduation. I have a vague recollection that Kirk transferred from security to command so he might have taken the test a second or third time around that time as a way of strengthening his transfer request.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I still can't believe that the way things happened in XI was the same way they did in the prime reality. (...)
Someone should do a comparative timeline chart for Kirk and Spock Prime and NuKirk and NuSpock.

This is really, really important.

 

[Dukhat]

I still can't believe that the way things happened in XI was the same way they did in the prime reality.

Well, if you still can't believe it after a whole page's worth of people telling you how it could have worked just fine, then what do you want us to tell you?

Someone should do a comparative timeline chart for Kirk and Spock Prime and NuKirk and NuSpock.

Why don't you do it if it's that important to you?

 

[shapeshifter]

Oh noes! The canon is dead because of the commentary track!