X-Men: Days of Future Past - Discussion Thread - SPOILERS

[Anwar]

The thing is, when Senator Kelly and Dr Trask say that humans have a right to fear mutants....they aren't wrong. There's a growing subspecies of humanity with powers that would easily allow them to terrorize and slaughter normal non-powered humans, and plenty of these mutants are just as scummy as thugs on the street but with a lot more power behind them.

This is why Kelly and Trask get negative portrayals or not much focus, because if they were portrayed more sympathetically...it'd be way too hard not to agree with them. All they really wanted was to keep normal powerless humans safe. It's not the same as normal racism because humans have every right to be scared.

 

[DWF]

The thing is though that not all mutants are dangerous, one of the problems with DOFP is that it did have Magneto proving how powerful he is and how dangerous he is on camera for all the world to see. And Kelly and Trask wanted to create a climate of fear fro all mutants, Trask was even willing to torture and kill mutants for his experiments.

The movie also says though that even though Trask was killed the Sentinals were still creted and used anyway, so really I don't see how the future was really changed or altered either for that matter.

 

[Anwar]

Trask's death apparently made him a martyr that made proponents of his Sentinels invest in the program. It just took them decades for technology catch up and make Sentinels even Magneto couldn't defeat.

In the new timeline, Trask (and Stryker) were both convicted traitors to the US Government which would have discredited the Sentinel program completely and probably mean Weapon X would be in the hands of someone else than Stryker.

And most of the people Trask killed...well, they were either members of the Hellfire Club or people who betrayed Xavier FOR the Club. They were terrorists against humans anyways.

Kelly was presented as a paranoid Hatemonger, but a lot of his arguments made sense. People had a right to be afraid of mutants.

 

[Hypaspist]

If you know about the history of X-Men comics over the years, then you know that Magneto was portrayed in various ways, and that was one of them.

Well yeah, comic series often have some issues that are way better than others. Kevin Smith wrote terrible Batman stories that make everyone involved act completely out of character. They suck for a reason, sort of the way they didn't establish Magneto very well in the first movie. It's the whole point of why I suggested they could have had a better story if they combined the movies two story lines into one.
Just because something was done in a series once doesn't mean it doesn't suck and you can't ignore it for future installations. It happens all the time in comics and in movies.

Or there's a better example in First Class. We get to see that Magneto was a pretty good guy who was liked by everyone at first. He had serious backstory issues, but it isn't until the government shows up that he decides to go a different way. From there you develop the story and show how he became somebody who must be stopped.

The thing is, when Senator Kelly and Dr Trask say that humans have a right to fear mutants....they aren't wrong. There's a growing subspecies of humanity with powers that would easily allow them to terrorize and slaughter normal non-powered humans, and plenty of these mutants are just as scummy as thugs on the street but with a lot more power behind them.

This is why Kelly and Trask get negative portrayals or not much focus, because if they were portrayed more sympathetically...it'd be way too hard not to agree with them. All they really wanted was to keep normal powerless humans safe. It's not the same as normal racism because humans have every right to be scared.

I think Trask got a fair portrayal in the movie. He is operating out of a genuine sense of fear - he thinks humanity's survival is at stake. The senator is basically just a slimy character and not really somebody who seems all that threatening. It's like Magneto is willing to kill anybody just because he doesn't like the way that they are thinking.

It's a good point that Magneto showed just how dangerous he could be at the end of Days of Future Past. Everyone has an opportunity to freak out and it shows where everyone stands. It also contrasts well with the future Magneto, who has come to see that the way he used to be was wrong.

 

[Anwar]

Heck, they're ignoring the other end of the spectrum entirely. You'd think there'd be Pro-Mutant humans who get into open fights with Anti-Mutant Hate groups, or even Mutant Worshiping Cults.

Sinister/Nathaniel Essex would be a good character to introduce, since he's a human who turned himself into a Mutated Human and wants to essentially do the same to the Human Race. He's the opposite of Trask who embraced mutants and saw them as the future.

And Kelly wasn't really a slimeball in the comics, he had a more human portrayal there.

I don't know why the movies are so centered on Magneto and Stryker as the bad guys when there's so much more in the X-Verse to use.

 

[Hypaspist]

I don't know why the movies are so centered on Magneto and Stryker as the bad guys when there's so much more in the X-Verse to use.

That sums up my problem with the first three X-men movies and the first Wolverine movie.
I do like that they tried to go into Wolverine's backstory a little bit for the second movie. I haven't seen it yet so I can't really comment.

The X-men comics weren't successful because they stuck with the one plot line. They had all kinds of crazy adventures and weird nemeses. There was the Shiarr Empire, Mojo World, the Savage Land, and a ton I'm forgetting. For villains they had Banshee's cousin, Juggernaut (who was a lot better than the movie let him be), and so many that had great stories to them.

Hopefully with the success of Guardians of the Galaxy they are more willing to take the stories to wild new levels. Maybe they'll even be more willing to hire rogue directors with all kinds of new ideas.

 

[DWF]

Trask's death apparently made him a martyr that made proponents of his Sentinels invest in the program. It just took them decades for technology catch up and make Sentinels even Magneto couldn't defeat.

In the new timeline, Trask (and Stryker) were both convicted traitors to the US Government which would have discredited the Sentinel program completely and probably mean Weapon X would be in the hands of someone else than Stryker.

And most of the people Trask killed...well, they were either members of the Hellfire Club or people who betrayed Xavier FOR the Club. They were terrorists against humans anyways.

Kelly was presented as a paranoid Hatemonger, but a lot of his arguments made sense. People had a right to be afraid of mutants.

Where in the movie does it say that Trask and Stryker were conficted as traitors? And Trask also tortured and killed Banshee and Havok as well and I'm sure there were plenty of others who weren't members of the Hellfire club.

 

[Anwar]

At the end there's a newspaper or a news report saying Trask had been arrested or was being investigated (for his dealings with the Vietnamese in France) and since Stryker was there with him it makes him also a traitor.

 

[DWF]

^^^Thanks I must've missed that.

 

[Gaith]

At the end there's a newspaper or a news report saying Trask had been arrested or was being investigated (for his dealings with the Vietnamese in France) and since Stryker was there with him it makes him also a traitor.

Citation needed - Trask is done for, yes, but I'd be surprised if we didn't see Major Stryker again, and still serving.

 

[Anwar]

Stryker was with Trask at that meeting with the Vietnamese officials in France. That makes him implicit in Conspiracy or Accessory to treason. A US Military Officer being at a secret meeting with deemed enemies of the US? Trask would throw him under the bus if he thought he had to.

That'll definitely mess up his career, even if he's still around. I doubt the US Military would put him in charge of Weapon X.

 

[DWF]

Stryker was with Trask at that meeting with the Vietnamese officials in France. That makes him implicit in Conspiracy or Accessory to treason. A US Military Officer being at a secret meeting with deemed enemies of the US? Trask would throw him under the bus if he thought he had to.

That'll definitely mess up his career, even if he's still around. I doubt the US Military would put him in charge of Weapon X.

How does Logan get the adamantium bonded to his skeleton then?

 

[Set Harth]

Maybe he doesn't.

Or maybe Apocalypse does it.

We just don't know.

 

[Anwar]

Apocalypse was supposed to be the real head of Weapon X manipulating the humans who thought they were in charge, but they never outright revealed it. He was the one who invented the Adamantium bonding process.

This was why, in the mid 90s when Logan lost his Adamantium for the first time (Magneto ripped it out, really nasty stuff) Apocalypse was the only one who could give him a new adamantium skeleton.

 

[DWF]

Apocalypse was supposed to be the real head of Weapon X manipulating the humans who thought they were in charge, but they never outright revealed it. He was the one who invented the Adamantium bonding process.

This was why, in the mid 90s when Logan lost his Adamantium for the first time (Magneto ripped it out, really nasty stuff) Apocalypse was the only one who could give him a new adamantium skeleton.

I think you can forget about the comic book continuity and the movie's continuity as well in The Wolverine. Logan lost his adamantium claws but future Wolverine still have them somehow. But then according to the Origins Wovlerine movie Styker picked up Wolverine and Sabertooth in Vietnam yet in DOFP he hadn't met Styker yet. And of course in the comics Styker was Canadian not an American. The comic's continuity and the movie's continuity don't mesh very well.

And as I recall Apocalypse merely removed the admantium from Bulleye's body and gave it to Wolverine, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, but he had to know HOW to bond adamantium to bones to be able to do that in the first place.

 

[Set Harth]

But then according to the Origins Wovlerine movie Styker picked up Wolverine and Sabertooth in Vietman yet in DOFP he hadn't met Styker yet.

It could be that the point when Wolverine met Stryker in the original timeline was slightly after the timeframe of their meeting in DOFP. It's a stretch but it can technically work.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I am pretty sure Singer said he ignored X-Men Origins: Wolverine but I can't be sure.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I'm pretty sure there is a briefest of brief snippets from Origins when Xavier is probing Logan's memories, but as I haven't seen DoFP since opening week, I can remember what specifically.

 

[Set Harth]

Victor stepping on Logan's claws.