Spoilers X-Men: Apocalypse - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Dream
- Start date
Saw it today, and it's a pretty mixed bag. It has some good story elements and some fun execution in places (Quicksiver's rescue scene), but in others it really drops the ball. Psylocke is a particularly bad example, having a good actress for the role and a pretty spot-on costume for the "later" Psylocke (that is, Betsy's mind in Kwannon's old body), but with almost no character development or reasonable motivation for joining Apocalypse. Considering she's traditionally a hero in the comics and Apocalypse likes to twist people when he creates Horsemen, there's a lot of lost potential there. I can also see where her powers would be confusing to someone not familiar with comic Psylocke, as her power set is similar to Jean's but she can also focus psionic energy into weapons like her psiblade. The movie never gives a basic explanation of her powers or makes any use of her telepathy or telekinesis, which would make her a potential match for Jean during the big battle scenes.
Angel isn't much better in the film, unlike his comic counterpart whose Horseman changes are still a major character element. I wasn't really a fan of how some of Apocalypse's powers were portrayed either, as he seems to able to alter objects and even people on a molecular level in ways his comic counterpart can't do directly. It seems more like a change to suit the script and let him do things in a faster manner. I wish they hadn't used the Phoenix Force as well.
Angel isn't much better in the film, unlike his comic counterpart whose Horseman changes are still a major character element. I wasn't really a fan of how some of Apocalypse's powers were portrayed either, as he seems to able to alter objects and even people on a molecular level in ways his comic counterpart can't do directly. It seems more like a change to suit the script and let him do things in a faster manner. I wish they hadn't used the Phoenix Force as well.
I figured they were brainwashed to some degree but I don't know if that's because I was seeing it through the lens of the comics. I don't recall much selling of his vision to warrant the others going along with the destruction of the entire planet.
A powerful guy promising a better world, especially for mutants, sounds enticing. It's the same reason some of them followed Magneto in the first movie. But Storm especially should have come around sooner.
Yeah, I was pretty unclear on Apocalypse's powers too. For one thing, when he & the 4 Horsemen kept teleporting everywhere, was that one of his powers or was that Psylocke teleporting them? I thought it was Psylocke because the teleporting bubble had a kind of purple tint, which fits with the rest of her color scheme. But at the end, after his Horsemen have all abandoned him, turned against him, or died, Apocalypse tries to teleport away, so either the teleporting was part of his powers or he was able to absorb a bit of his Horsemen's powers somehow.
The movie was not at all clear on that point. Now, I wouldn't have been particularly concerned about her motivations except for the fact that she was a bad guy in this one whereas she was a very prominent good guy in the other movies.
Is he that skunk-headed kid who got killed by a Sentinel in the opening prologue of Days of Future Past, then became the first person that Wolverine saw at the school once he woke up in the altered 2023 at the end? Because, yeah, I thought I saw him in the background at the school in Apocalypse too.
They don't do that every time. Magneto was a villain for the entirety of X-Men and X-Men: The Last Stand. But, yeah, it is getting a bit old. Like in the HISHE video below around the 2:38 mark. "Oh my gosh! We have been arguing about this for nearly 50 years!"
Considering how sympathetic Magneto has been in the new movies, I keep waiting for him to permanently turn good. After all, old future Magneto seems to regret all of the fighting they did in Days of Future Past. If only he could have had a heart-to-heart talk with his past self the way that Professor Xavier did.
On the plus side, I liked making Mystique a teacher at the end of this movie. I was kinda expecting her to be revealed as one of the teachers in the altered future at the end of Days of Future Past, but this is good enough for me.
I guess maybe my biggest problem with Apocalypse is that it doesn't have any clear emotional through-lines to focus on. It doesn't seem to know what its own "A," "B," & "C" stories are. If they'd asked me, I probably would have made the stuff with the new cast--Jean Grey, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, & probably Jubilee--be the A-story. The B-story would have been Mystique going from rogue mutant liberator to leader of the X-Men. The C-story would have been developing Magneto & the other Horsemen. Then have the Xavier/Moira stuff and the Quicksilver stuff be minor D threads running throughout the movie.
I'm not saying that the movie needed to be longer or anything. I just think it needed a stronger sense of story priorities. It's ironic because most of the other X-Men movies have done that pretty well. Sometimes that caused other problems in the films, such as overemphasizing Wolverine to the detriment of all other characters or killing off a lot of beloved First Class characters offscreen just so that Days of Future Past wouldn't seem so crowded. But having a strong sense of character-driven narrative structure was always one of the great strengths of this franchise before. Even when The Last Stand greatly mishandled its story priorities, it at least committed to its choices.
<<Storm didn't really make sense. At first, it seemed like she was allied with Apocalypse because she misinterpreted his motives. She thought he was trying to save the world, not kill everybody. But then, his agenda got pretty dark pretty fast, yet it took a long time for her to move against him. That would be fine except she's suddenly supposed to be one of the good guys now?>>
They didn't mention it in the movie, but in the comics, when Apocalypse upgrades your power he also brainwashes you into following him.
The movie was not at all clear on that point. Now, I wouldn't have been particularly concerned about her motivations except for the fact that she was a bad guy in this one whereas she was a very prominent good guy in the other movies.
So...It looks like Nate Gray barely aged at all from 1983 to the future depicted in DOFP.
Is he that skunk-headed kid who got killed by a Sentinel in the opening prologue of Days of Future Past, then became the first person that Wolverine saw at the school once he woke up in the altered 2023 at the end? Because, yeah, I thought I saw him in the background at the school in Apocalypse too.
They don't do that every time. Magneto was a villain for the entirety of X-Men and X-Men: The Last Stand. But, yeah, it is getting a bit old. Like in the HISHE video below around the 2:38 mark. "Oh my gosh! We have been arguing about this for nearly 50 years!"
Considering how sympathetic Magneto has been in the new movies, I keep waiting for him to permanently turn good. After all, old future Magneto seems to regret all of the fighting they did in Days of Future Past. If only he could have had a heart-to-heart talk with his past self the way that Professor Xavier did.
On the plus side, I liked making Mystique a teacher at the end of this movie. I was kinda expecting her to be revealed as one of the teachers in the altered future at the end of Days of Future Past, but this is good enough for me.
I guess maybe my biggest problem with Apocalypse is that it doesn't have any clear emotional through-lines to focus on. It doesn't seem to know what its own "A," "B," & "C" stories are. If they'd asked me, I probably would have made the stuff with the new cast--Jean Grey, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, & probably Jubilee--be the A-story. The B-story would have been Mystique going from rogue mutant liberator to leader of the X-Men. The C-story would have been developing Magneto & the other Horsemen. Then have the Xavier/Moira stuff and the Quicksilver stuff be minor D threads running throughout the movie.
I'm not saying that the movie needed to be longer or anything. I just think it needed a stronger sense of story priorities. It's ironic because most of the other X-Men movies have done that pretty well. Sometimes that caused other problems in the films, such as overemphasizing Wolverine to the detriment of all other characters or killing off a lot of beloved First Class characters offscreen just so that Days of Future Past wouldn't seem so crowded. But having a strong sense of character-driven narrative structure was always one of the great strengths of this franchise before. Even when The Last Stand greatly mishandled its story priorities, it at least committed to its choices.
Relive the best moment in the movie here.
http://jackspacepirate.tumblr.com/post/144756222141/jmrivera18-ito-talaga-nagdala-sa-x-men
Plus funny fanart.
I agree the Magneto stuff is done to death. All these comic movies do that, though. Let's keep using Loki! Magneto! Dr Doom! Lex Luthor! Over and over! They have other villains. And even when they finally DO use another major hitter, Apocalypse, it still ends up being mostly about Magneto (and Mystique).
It's a shame Quicksilver can save everyone from the Mansion yet Snyder's Superman can't save the people in that court. If you asked me who was faster in the comics, my answer would have been Superman. I do blame Snyder for dwarfing Superman. Christopher Reeves', Tom Welling's, Dean Caine's, and the animated series' version of Superman could have moved as fast as Quicksilver did.
Well, not everyone...
Well all of those Supermen and the X-men QS have FTL speeds. MOS Supes has speed of sound and maybe a little more. Given all the sonic booms he does. Iron Man can do those with his armor.
Supes has been nerfed for decades though. Only the resident speedesters (Flashes, Jesse Quick, etc) in the DCU get FTL speeds. Just like Superman isn't the strongest physically anymore either.
It would have been interesting to see the original Horsemen: Pestilence, Famine, War, and Death (Archangel). But I could see the producers wanted to go with familiar and already established characters in the cinematic universe, like Storm and Magneto.
Age of Apocalypse would've been an epic adaptation as well.
Age of Apocalypse would've been an epic adaptation as well.
I wish they hadn't retconned that into being an alternate Earth/timeline, though I understand why (they wanted to continue using the alternate characters from that timeline). 
As originally written, the AoA was supposed to be a radically altered 616 timeline due to Legion tampering with the past and unwittingly causing a younger Xavier to be killed and Apocalypse emerging much earlier than he did in the original timeline. Outside of that context, some of the actions of certain characters (like AoA Colossus letting most of his team die to protect Magik, who was alive in the AoA timeline but dead of the Legacy virus in the proper one then) no longer make the same degree of sense.
I personally wouldn't mind seeing the lineup of Horsemen from the movie that we did see, if it's handled properly and there's enough details laid down for the audience to have story context. Same is true with the Phoenix Force, which I think shouldn't be treated as though it's an inherent extension of Jean when it's not. It's an alien life form that joined with Jean and dramatically empowered her in the comics, but also suffered from human attributes that the Phoenix had never encountered and had difficulty adapting to.
As originally written, the AoA was supposed to be a radically altered 616 timeline due to Legion tampering with the past and unwittingly causing a younger Xavier to be killed and Apocalypse emerging much earlier than he did in the original timeline. Outside of that context, some of the actions of certain characters (like AoA Colossus letting most of his team die to protect Magik, who was alive in the AoA timeline but dead of the Legacy virus in the proper one then) no longer make the same degree of sense.I personally wouldn't mind seeing the lineup of Horsemen from the movie that we did see, if it's handled properly and there's enough details laid down for the audience to have story context. Same is true with the Phoenix Force, which I think shouldn't be treated as though it's an inherent extension of Jean when it's not. It's an alien life form that joined with Jean and dramatically empowered her in the comics, but also suffered from human attributes that the Phoenix had never encountered and had difficulty adapting to.
I found the movie kind of meh, but fall more on the side of liking it than hating it. I've never really liked Apocalypse as a character, so that's part of the problem.
I do believe they missed an opportunity at the end to set up the Avalon / Asteroid M storyline. It would have been a logical step for where they had taken Magneto, and it could even be used as an excuse to sideline Magneto in the next film in case Fasbender doesn't come back.
I do believe they missed an opportunity at the end to set up the Avalon / Asteroid M storyline. It would have been a logical step for where they had taken Magneto, and it could even be used as an excuse to sideline Magneto in the next film in case Fasbender doesn't come back.
Brian Singer wants to do a standalone Mystique movie, possibly even without Jennifer Lawrence.
This version of Mystique has been one of my favorite characters in the current movie series, so I would be up for a movie focused on her. Having JLaw would be a big plus, but as long as they got a good actress to take over, I think it could still be good without her.
This version of Mystique has been one of my favorite characters in the current movie series, so I would be up for a movie focused on her. Having JLaw would be a big plus, but as long as they got a good actress to take over, I think it could still be good without her.
Nope. No, no, no. The X-Men franchise so desperately needs to move away from Magneto and Mystique that it's not even funny.
