Kirk is a professional, and so are the rest of the crew, as if that needs to be stated. Oh, and:
P.S. I goofed on the star system name, I was on automatic pilot, I guess. Fixed in the post.
Wrath of Khan's Big BooBoo
- Thread starter JE Smith
- Start date
Kirk is a professional, and so are the rest of the crew, as if that needs to be stated. Oh, and:
P.S. I goofed on the star system name, I was on automatic pilot, I guess. Fixed in the post.
Yes, and this happened when Sulu said they were "within the limits" of the system. Neither the debris nor the absence of planets that was the cause of the debris were detected until Spock deigned to start scanning for these things specifically - apparently because of Palmer and Sulu's failure to accomplish the mission the easy way, by tracking the SOS.
"The Doomsday Machine" shows that no scanning takes place before a starship enters these "limits" (thus debunking your original claim that such things are bread and butter for starship ops) - but not that scanning would take place at any later stage, either, not without a special reason. And it's very difficult to find other TOS references to idle scanning of a star system, too.
But the easy out there, and the one you for some reason refuse to consider, is that scanning is a major bother that is not trivially achieved.
Sure, technology can achieve stuff. Doesn't mean it would be employed without good reason - and this is generally because it carries a price tag. Refusal to scan is no different from the equally odd refusal to employ shields except when no other alternative remains. And since we know nothing about how these "sensors" and "shields" actually are supposed to work, we really have no leg to stand on if claiming that they are used "incorrectly" or "insufficiently".
The major difference is that people care about Sol. What's there to care about Ceti Alpha?
Why would NCC-1701 create a survey? That's something Kirk would have to enter in his logs, and he doesn't want to make any logs of the event. Not when he chooses to conclude those events with the act of hiding Khan from the authorities.
More significantly, we never hear of the hero starship creating surveys unless that is the specific mission of the ship. Professionals don't dabble in hobby projects when they have jobs to do.
...And that's what data shredders are for.
Timo Saloniemi
I don't think Trek would have necessarily died without TWOK. Think about it, even if Bennett had failed miserably to get the film off the ground, Paramount would still likely have pursued someone else to take a shot. TMP may not have made Star Wars box office, but it still sold a lot of tickets, and no studio was going to ignore that.
The blame would have fallen more on Meyer, as the inexperienced director and, yes, some one else would get a shot.
I think Bennett might have faced the wrath too. I wonder if Nimoy would still try for the next film? I don't think it would be quite the same film.
If the 2nd film failed, that, along with Paramount (presumably) not fond of TMP's critical reception / fan disappointment would hardly be in the mood (i.e. open the wallet) for yet another film based on one of their old properties. I seriously doubt the studio would think "third time's the charm," during a period where studios were breathless & desperate to join the sci-fi/fantasy blockbuster movement, not lose money / audience interest.
Would they risk more money on a third ST instead of trying to develop something else?
I took 'failing to get off the ground' as meaning 'if TWOK never managed to be made in the first place'. Instead somone else would have made their cheap Star Trek II off the back of the profitable TMP, and that hypothetical movie might have been successful and continued the franchise. Bennett and Meyer weren't necassarily the makers and breakers of the franchise.
But I might have misunderstood .
But I might have misunderstood .
I keep reading the thread title as "Wrath of Khan's Big Boobies" and think it's a thread about Motelban's chest.
See the bottom of page six.
I honestly could see Nimoy taking a try out it, if it failed, simply by virtue of trying to go out on top with a win.
Similarly, Shatner I could also see making an argument that the series needed to continue. I just don't see those two giving up on the franchise if TWOK was a failure.
Khan recognizing Chekov bothered me- but only after I watched the TOS episode featuring Khan ("Space Seed") and Chekov wasn't in it at all. However, it really doesn't affect my enjoyment in any meaningful way. I do sort of wonder what happened to all of the adult members of his crew that were with him in cryo and later marooned with him. Most of his new crew looked like adolescents. How many women were in his original crew? Oh well. Still one of the best ST movies.
"present speed."
And Khan, like most of the movies, is shot through with such illogic.
You mean like...
Question: in the first photo of Scotty holding him I notice that Preston's rubber collar is both black and a little red/orange at the top. Officers wear black collars and cadets wear orange. Is Preston's collar orange and black because it was damaged, or is it black and red/orange from the blood?
We don't really know who is supposed to wear what: TWoK is just about the only movie where we could pretend red is associated with cadets. But Preston wore red when Kirk first came aboard and inspected the lineup. Red collar, complete with empty yellow epaulets, whatever that means.
Supposedly the very uniform worn in the lineup scene was later destroyed for the death scene, so I wouldn't expect there to be differences there.
Timo Saloniemi
Supposedly the very uniform worn in the lineup scene was later destroyed for the death scene, so I wouldn't expect there to be differences there.
Timo Saloniemi
Malfunction, or shell shock.
I do not understand why people can't fathom Scotty going to the wrong place in a crisis.
People do really bizarre stuff in horrific situations.
EX: War time, someone casually picking up their own dismembered limb and walking around with it in a daze.
EX 2: A mother bursting into uncontrolled laughter when her child is very badly injured.
And so on... I never had any issue with that moment. It worked dramatically and I honestly just chalked it up to Scotty finding himself in such an unexpected situation. They were not expecting trouble.
I don't think Preston was going to be saved no matter what. I think he was on deaths door when Scotty hauled him into the turbolift. Scotty was probably in a grief stricken daze and thought "my friends can help." If he really thought at all. Again, it could have been a malfunction. Later on a bunch of the turbo lifts aren't working.
I do not understand why people can't fathom Scotty going to the wrong place in a crisis.
People do really bizarre stuff in horrific situations.
EX: War time, someone casually picking up their own dismembered limb and walking around with it in a daze.
EX 2: A mother bursting into uncontrolled laughter when her child is very badly injured.
And so on... I never had any issue with that moment. It worked dramatically and I honestly just chalked it up to Scotty finding himself in such an unexpected situation. They were not expecting trouble.
I don't think Preston was going to be saved no matter what. I think he was on deaths door when Scotty hauled him into the turbolift. Scotty was probably in a grief stricken daze and thought "my friends can help." If he really thought at all. Again, it could have been a malfunction. Later on a bunch of the turbo lifts aren't working.
Easy enough to explain: Chekov wasn't a bridge officer at the time, but was still serving somewhere else on the ship.
My thoughts: The battle scenes in TWOK used imagery heavily influenced by sea battles in classic movies like The Sea Hawk, Captain Horatio Hornblower etc. that Nicholas Meyer was familiar with (and, indeed, could still be seen on TV when I was a kid in the '70s or early '80s). A falling beam instead of a toppling mast, lifting the torpedo gratings instead of clearing hatch covers etc. In those movies, the captain could look down from the quarterdeck and see the whole battle, and the carnage and damage of its aftermath. That's hard to show when the crew is distributed around in closed compartments, and a "hit" that causes a lot of casualties on the bridge would be problematic in its own way. So in place of that, the lift door opens to surprisingly reveal Scotty carrying the dying boy (and, originally, there was no mention that they were related). It was, as Marsden said above, just to provide a dramatic sting to bring the tone back down after the exciting return of fire on Reliant, and to remind everyone that Kirk had screwed up, caught with his pants down, and it had serious consequences. It was never intended to make sense beyond that.
We have had discussion over the years where people have advanced explanations, but none of them stand up well IMO. It was just a melodramatic scene in a movie whose director never intended it to withstand minute scrutiny.
