Wrath of Khan deleted scene audio clip.

[Grant]

Also I was at a convention in 1986 we're James Doohan was asked why his scene in Star Trek II had been cut in the Sick Bay. His reply was....
" because Bill Shatner doesn't like to see good acting"
In other words he he was blatantly implying that Shatner lobbied to get his one or two lines cut in the sickbay scene where Peter Preston dies. But if you watch the restored scene Scotty only has two lines and then he leaves the sickbay and Kirk and McCoy have a long heart to heart talk about Khan. So why would Shatner cause the scene to be deleted where he had most of the lines and where the focus was on him? Because it's nonsense. He didn't Lobby to have the scene cut. This was just a case of bitter actors who failed to become Stars blaming a lead actor for their problems. George takei's account sounds just as nonsensical as what James Doohan repeated onstage at more than one convention. Shatner probably didn't treat them right or acknowledge them so they became bitter and blamed him for all the times that their scenes were cut. That's my opinion you can have yours if you want yours to be the same as George's.

 

[Dukhat]

When Kirstie Alley and Merritt Butrick were signed for ST II, it was known that this was supposed to be Leonard Nimoy's last ever appearance as Spock. IIRC, some of this is covered in Allan Asherman's "Making of..." book for ST II. Remember that Nimoy had refused to participate in "Phase II", and there were thirteen scripts at various stages of development that had Xon, not Spock. Remember that Shatner had also indicated that, if his motion picture career had taken off and/or if "Phase II" had been only a mediocre ratings series, he was intending to jump ship at the midpoint of Season 1. Maybe do recurring Sweeps Week appearances as Admiral Kirk. Or not.

Before principal photography began, ST II was being produced by Paramount's television arm. It was to have been a telemovie, perhaps with an overseas theatrical release. And more telemovies, or a rejig of "Phase II", if successful. (It was upgraded to the motion picture arm not long after.) Alley and Butrick were to be groomed as romantic leads, should that series of telemovies take off. They had romantic glances filmed, but ultimate unused, for ST II.

Decker and Ilia had been written out at the end of TMP. Saavik was essentially a female Xon, but on the command track. Marcus was the scientist. But... at the wrap party for ST II, Nimoy told Harve Bennett that he had enjoyed the experience so much, he would return for ST III, especially if he could direct. Then Saavik was recast and Marcus was killed off, so any grooming of Alley and Butrick ended the minute Nimoy asked to return.

The brief line in ST II, about Sulu taking the captaincy of Excelsior, was added to appease Takei, not necessarily as a future spin-off. Even though it got trimmed, it stayed in the three Vonda McIntyre novelisations (but the books are only read by 2% of the viewing audience). A rallying cry for "Captain Sulu" among (some) fans developed after the popularity of ST IV. Remember, it was ILM's intention that their Excelsior model would be the new hero ship, but fans called it "the pregnant guppy" after ST III, so the movie Enterprise got an "A" added to its registry number. (Leaving Excelsior free for a "Captain Sulu" series.) The call for a Sulu series gained momentum when Takei was offered ST VI, and started advocating for a spin-off at conventions. And again after Voyager's "Flashback".

Thanks for the info. While I'm well aware of all the 'Captain Sulu" stuff, I was unaware that STII was originally developed as a TV movie, or that the intent after that was to have a series of telemovies with Alley and Butrick. I'm not sure that would have been better than what we eventually got, but it's still fascinating info nonetheless.

 

[Grant]

Also note that in the script Chekov was not referred to as first officer of the Reliant. And in fact on the Star Trek II work print his voice over is different than the final version and he refers to himself as duty officer instead of first officer as is indicated in the script. So even as production was ongoing it was decided to bump Chekhov up to First officer even after his lines had been recorded indicating he was duty officer. Something tells me when Walter Koenig found out they had written a scene where Sulu was promoted to Captain he probably wondered why Chekov wasn't at least first officer of the Reliant. So ironically Sulu getting promoted to Captain caused Chekov off to get a promotion to First officer but sulu's promotion was edited out and chekov's was obviously not edited out.

 

[Workbee]

Also note that in the script Chekov was not referred to as first officer of the Reliant. And in fact on the Star Trek II work print his voice over is different than the final version and he refers to himself as duty officer instead of first officer as is indicated in the script. So even as production was ongoing it was decided to bump Chekhov up to First officer even after his lines had been recorded indicating he was duty officer. Something tells me when Walter Koenig found out they had written a scene where Sulu was promoted to Captain he probably wondered why Chekov wasn't at least first officer of the Reliant. So ironically Sulu getting promoted to Captain caused Chekov off to get a promotion to First officer but sulu's promotion was edited out and chekov's was obviously not edited out.

I never knew that! It retrospect it makes a lot of sense - there is very little the Checkov does to suggest he is first officer. One would think that post-eel recovery, he would have been far more valuable to Kirk for both his knowledge of Reliant and observations of Kahn and his followers thank as just another hand to fire phasers. It could have been something as subtle as telling Kirk something like “the power couplings in our port nacelle are worn and due for replacement - shoot at that”.

Heck, as the senior most surviving officer, he should have been subject to an inquiry if not a court martial considering the ship was lost.
Instead, he was simply returned to his “old” (TMP) station.


Regarding the plan for telemovies with Alley and Butrick - how would that have worked? They weren’t planning to put David in command of the Enterprise were they? Science officer serving under Kirk? Or just like an civilian scientific advisor similar to his role in Grissom? Would Saavik be in command? It seemed like they were being setup for that - with the no win scenario test, the “learn why things work aboard a starship” and her general risk averse disposition - manifest through dependence on stating regulations and problems when challenging a course of action - these all suggest areas of growth for her on her journey to command where experience gives her the confidence to rely on her own judgement.

 

[Maab]

Grant if you need your audio clips converted I can do it without problem. I converted some of them, and they worked fine.

 

[Grant]

Do you have them? I've been busy back at work and haven't really had time to figure it out. If you have them you could post them. I would really appreciate that.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Heck, as the senior most surviving officer, he should have been subject to an inquiry if not a court martial considering the ship was lost.
Instead, he was simply returned to his “old” (TMP) station.

Kyle and Beach were full commanders, IIRC, and Kyle is definitely older than Chekov. (The actor John Winston died recently at age 91 - he was eight years older than Walter Koenig - and Kyle was a lieutenant when Chekov was a green ensign). Kyle and Beach were supposedly rescued from Ceti Alpha V after the events that saw them marooned.

Regarding the plan for telemovies with Alley and Butrick - how would that have worked? They weren’t planning to put David in command of the Enterprise were they?

I don't think they really knew, just that the characters/actors were being groomed as potential romantic leads in an ongoing series of telemovies. But a reversal: Spock's protege in command of a smallish ship and Kirk's progeny as her science advisor.

Science officer serving under Kirk?

No. The assumption was that Shatner would be off making non-Trek movies.

these all suggest areas of growth for her on her journey to command where experience gives her the confidence to rely on her own judgement.

Yes. An interesting premise that may have had appeal with viewers. But then Nimoy announced he was happy to return.

 

[Maab]

Hi everybody, following Grant's request, here you can find audio clips of all the deleted scenes from The Wrath of Khan included in the workprint. Quality is low, but the rarity of these materials makes them an absolute treasure. If someone has better versions, or a copy of the workprint itself... please stand up!
Comments and remarks are Grant's.

1. Saavik romulan heritage
http://www.marcellorossi.info/1-SaavikRomulanHeritage.mp3
This first clip is the audio to the academy corridor scene where Spock mentions Saavik's romualn heritage.
This is one of the very few deleted scenes that is available to see on Youtube and at other sites. This is the full cut--not the abrieviated portion in the video clip.

2. How glasses work
http://www.marcellorossi.info/2-HowGlassesWork.mp3
McCoy actually advising kirk on how the glasses work and Kirk reading the bottle label.

3. David and Carol extended intro
http://www.marcellorossi.info/3-DavidAndCarolExtendedIntro.mp3
This is the full extended intro of David talking to Carol. It came right after Terrell saying, "You bet, we're on our way!" AND David's line to Carol, "Well, don't have kittens."
I think it was cut because it made David sound too strident in his dislike for 'the military' (Starfleet) and I think the producers wanted him to be liked by the fans and not too close minded.

4. Chekov's log
http://www.marcellorossi.info/4-ChekovsLog.mp3
This audio is the original version of Chekov's introductory log entry. What's interesting is that he refers to himself as 'Duty Officer' not 'First Officer'. Rumor always has been that after they lured Takei into the movie with the promise of promoting his character to Captain---that Koenig wondered why he couldn't at least be first officer of Reliant.

5. Chekov screams
http://www.marcellorossi.info/5-ChekovScream.mp3
This is the infamous scene where Chekov is startled by the child when he peers into the small 'porthole' on the side of the cargo carrier.

6. Child in the Botany Bay
http://www.marcellorossi.info/6-ChildInTheBotanyBay.mp3
This is Terrell and Chekov finding the child in the interior of the cargo carrier. This cut required a masterpiece of editing. They are actually two rooms seen inside the cargo carrier--the first with the bunks and the portal and the second with the books and the 'Botany bay' seatbelt. Originally they walk into the second room and find the child, but in order to delete the child entirely they inserted the portion where Terrell kneels down next to the eel tank and says, "What the hell is that?" Then they cut to Chekov walking towards the bookshelf. then Chekov turns to terrell and says, "we have to get out of here!" They cleverly cropped it so it appeared terrell was still kneeling next to the eel tank--not the child which he actually was! Brilliant cutting to eliminate the portion they didn't want and leaving in what they did.

7. Khan mentions Marla
http://www.marcellorossi.info/7-KhanMentionsMarla.mp3
I love continuity from the series and here is one I really wish they had left in! It comes after Chekov's line--"On ceti alpha five there was life--a fair chance!" AND Khan's--"You didn't expect to find us here!"

8. Terrell tricks Reliant
http://www.marcellorossi.info/8-TerrellTricksReliant.mp3
This is one of the few entirely cut scenes in the movie. After Khan's line---"Why are you here and where may I find James Kirk?" They originally cut to Reliant finally getting impatient and sending a rescue. Terrell now under Khan's sway tricks them into thinking all is well. Nice expository scene, but the cut from Khan snearing Kirk's name and Kirk blithly reading his book unaware of the danger in the shuttle is so perfect I'm glad they left it out.

9. Sulu gets promoted
http://www.marcellorossi.info/9-SuluGetsPromoted.mp3
Okay, possible the most imfamous cut scene in Trek history... Sulu's promotion. What's amazing is that when you break it down it is about 10 seconds of dialogue cut. From sulu saying, "any chance to go aboard Enterprise..." to Kirk saying, "I for one am glad to have you."

10. Chekovs on Reliant
http://www.marcellorossi.info/10-ChekovsOnReliant.mp3
A single line of dialogue that I really think they should have left in. People always ask why Kirk was so reluctant to take a defensive posture against Reliant, but this line where he notes Chevov's on board may mitigate that. Maybe he had a false sense of security that a ship with his protege would be harmless.

11. Khan mocks Kirk
http://www.marcellorossi.info/11-KhanMocksKirk.mp3
Just a brief bit during the parley where Khan jabs at Kirk.

12. McCoy recognizes Terrell
http://www.marcellorossi.info/12-McCoyRecognizesTerrell.mp3
This really brief bit establishes that McCoy knows Terrell but more interestingly informs us that he has served elsewhere in Starfleet besides all his years on Enterprise. It of course comes right after Kirk opens the locker and Chekov and terrell are revealed to be inside.

13. Kirk fights David original version: Part 1
http://www.marcellorossi.info/13-KirkFightsDavidOriginalVersion-PartOne.mp3
All the previous cuts made were either Meyer's choice or perhaps producer Harve Bennett or maybe even studio suggestions, BUT this was a studio demand. Someone HATED this version for whatever reason and demanded a reshoot.

14. Kirk fights David original version: Part 2
http://www.marcellorossi.info/14-KirkFightsDavidOriginalVersionPartTwo.mp3
Part 2 of the 'reveal' scene. It's all kind of hard to hear is Terrell says, "I'll hold onto that." while grabbing the phaser from Jedda (David's friend). Carol says, "You've gotten a little gray." to Kirk. Kirk says, "It it true?" (him being David's father).

15. Khan gloats
http://www.marcellorossi.info/15-KhanGloats.mp3
After the famous Khaaaaaaaaan line, Khan and Joachim discuss Reliants damage repairs and visually they make a point of showing the Genesis control box being brought to the bridge.

16. McCoy and David spar
http://www.marcellorossi.info/16-McCoyAndDavidSpar.mp3
David and McCoy spar over who is responsible for the deaths. The cutting/reshooting of the earlier fight scene caused a chain reaction of cuts for the rest of the movie---this is classic McCoy/Kelley stuff and the fans should get to see it.

17. Kirk/Carol alone extended
http://www.marcellorossi.info/17-KirkCarolAloneExtended.mp3
Carol's extended dialogue. I really wish they had kept it in, as this turned out to be the only scene with Kirk and Carol alone--ever.

18. David and Saavik flirt in Eden cave
http://www.marcellorossi.info/18-DavidAndSaavikFlirtInEdenCave.mp3
David and Saavik flirt while eating in 'Eden cave', another casualty of the reshoot of the 'revelation' scene. They wanted the audience to not know when David found out. The 2nd half of it is Kirk, McCoy and Carol discussing the setting---this part, at least, should have been kept.

That's all folks!

 

[Tallguy]

That's terrific. Thank you!

Did Meyer give Takei the worst lines or what? Everyone sounds like they're speaking English and suddenly Sulu has to say "Surely not!" And I have to say Takei's super passionate reading didn't help.

"I'm delighted! Any chance to go aboard the Enterprise" sounds like a normal person. "...however briefly is always an excuse for nostalgia." Ummm... I don't know how you could read that line and not sound ridiculous. Shatner had nothing to do with this one.

I think all of these are in the novelization. McIntyre took a lot of liberties with dialogue that was on screen, but she got a lot of these verbatim. (I'm going from memory and may be terribly wrong.) Interesting that Carol gives David credit for most of Genesis. Given where III goes.

Was the objection to the fight or to Kirk not knowing that he had a kid? It seems in the original cut and in the novel that Kirk has no idea that David exists. But in the reshoots he was aware and he and Carol had agreed to stay apart. "Why didn't you tell him?"

I adore The Motion Picture but I've always been annoyed that TMP gets the five star treatment with deleted scenes and all and TWOK gets just about nothing. (Although so far TWOK is on 4K and TMP isn't.)

 

[Grant]

Shatner hated the fact that David got the better of him and somebody at the studio hated the fact that Kirk didn't know he had a son. So when the star and somebody high up in the studio want the scene changed it gets changed.

 

[Grant]

The best thing about an official deleted scenes released by Paramount would be besides the obvious fact that it could be seen visually is that it would include deleted scenes from the last 25 minutes of the movie which are not part of the work print which was donated to UCLA.
So we could get to see the full funeral scene, the scene with the baby and the torpedo in the transporter room of Reliant, the full scene between David and Kirk and the full Bridge scene at the end which you can see a snippet of on the YouTube "shoWest" trailer.
Along with stuff that was probably cut very early and not part of the work print such as Khan interrogating Chekov on the bridge of the Reliant.

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[Vger23]

You can see why many of these cuts were made. Many of the lines were awkwardly written or delivered. Some of it just doesn't fit well from a pacing or timing standpoint.

And the addition of the baby is creepy and unwanted

 

[Grant]

Yeah but when you see the workprint you realize that in pretty much the majority of the movie The Line readings were bad! It's not like all the minor actors gave good line readings in the material that made it through to the actual movie and gave poor line readings in those deleted scenes. Basically when it came to David Chekhov saavik and a couple of the other actors their performances were way off. This is a movie where those performances were saved in the looping sessions that came afterward. Particularly Kirstie Alley when you watch the work print she mispronounces a ton of words related to locations and devices Etc. Also Walter Koenig just when you hear the difference between his original log entry and the one used in the movie there's a huge amount of difference it's not because the dialogue was slightly changed that the performance was so much better it was because when they went ahead and looped a lot of those scenes he got additional Direction from Nicholas Meyer. Also virtually every line reading by David that's deleted is kind of awkward and stiff in some way. But his line readings in the actual movie were not bad. It's very likely that the takes that they used for the work print we're not the final takes as well meaning that there may have been other takes of the deleted scenes that were better than the ones that were in the work print. There's no way all these actors just were awful in the work print and deleted scenes and then became magically pretty decent when the theatrical material was shot. Also if you look at that trailer that I attached at the end of my last post you can even see examples were the actors are mispronouncing certain words and the readings are stiff. Had those deleted scenes been chosen to be used in the movie they would have either used other takes or they would have had the actors Dub over with different emphasis.

 

[Firebird]

Finally hearing all those clips is the next best thing to being able to go to UCLA to actually view the workprint (which probably won't happen for quite some time as it is). I just went through all of the audio clips and updated my continuity script of the workprint version, denoting all of the changes from the shooting script: https://www.scribd.com/document/246301267/Star-Trek-II-Footage-Rundown-Workprint

 

[Grant]

I guess my pro DeForest Kelley bias is showing but every deleted scene with McCoy makes me wish they had left it in.
I guess I'm like Dorothy and the scarecrow - I think I miss him most of all.
Next is Khan. I know that opening scene inside the Cargo Carrier was a long one but I really love it when he mentions Marla McGiver's. There's a line from the script that was not in the work print but I'm pretty sure it was filmed where Khan says right after the line "but first I wanted you to know who had beaten you...."
It concluded with....
"I, KHAN NOONIAN SINGH -- the eagle you attempted to cage forever!!!"
I know the line is cheesy and he probably performed it REALLY big but somehow for Khan it seems to work -- at least for me.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The work print has the only usable take. According to George, told to me by him in 1984 - long before it became part of his regular convention patter - Shatner botched George's closeup take with Shatner's traditional goofy eyeroll. Grace Lee Whitney and Yvonne Craig both mentioned this habit at conventions. It was Shatner's way of controlling which take got used, usually preventing his co-stars' closeups being usable, due to their unexpected reactions, and guaranteeing that Shatner's closeup was better.

The dialogue is so insubstantial that I don't even know why Takei needed a close-up. I realize he didn't sign until after filming had begun, and the cut line of dialogue is probably the reason why, but does that merit a close-up? Without seeing the workprint, the audio clip of the dialogue sounds usable. Shatner sounds engaged, contrary to thirty years of Takei's complaints.

Nothing against Takei, but if Harve Bennett had said to him, "You know, George, I would have liked to have you on this picture, but the production is moving on," nothing would have been lost by his absence. No one was not going to see the film if he wasn't in it.

 

[Tomalak]

The best thing about an official deleted scenes released by Paramount would be besides the obvious fact that it could be seen visually is that it would include deleted scenes from the last 25 minutes of the movie which are not part of the work print which was donated to UCLA.
So we could get to see the full funeral scene, the scene with the baby and the torpedo in the transporter room of Reliant, the full scene between David and Kirk and the full Bridge scene at the end which you can see a snippet of on the YouTube "shoWest" trailer.
Along with stuff that was probably cut very early and not part of the work print such as Khan interrogating Chekov on the bridge of the Reliant.

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Ha, I uploaded that video years ago. I'm glad to see it's in circulation. I'm sure I got it originally from someone on TrekBBS, so if it was you or anyone else reading, thanks!

Great to finally be able to hear those other deleted scenes after all these years. I don't understand why they still haven't been included on any of the DVD or Blu-ray releases, given the scenes almost certainly still exist in the archives. For such a major franchise, Star Trek has been poorly served on home video. The highlight has probably been the remastered TNG blu-rays, presumably because Roger Lay knows his stuff. Then again, I'm sure it was he who produced the TWOK Blu-ray, so if he'd been able to use the deleted scenes, I'm sure he would have. I can therefore only assume they haven't been released because Paramount continues to refuse for some reason.

 

[Lukas Kendall]

Thank you for this thread and all the fantastic information. This is one of my favorite films. One piece of information: Bob Sallin was a guest on Inglorious Treksperts and, if I remember correctly, revealed that placing Star Trek II under Paramount's television division was simply a ruse to get better deals from the trade unions. It was always going to be a feature film.

 

[Lukas Kendall]

Forgive me if I missed it, but what are the details of the Star Trek II work print at UCLA? In whose collection is it...and is it viewable by the public? What format? Thanks!

 

[Firebird]

Forgive me if I missed it, but what are the details of the Star Trek II work print at UCLA? In whose collection is it...and is it viewable by the public? What format? Thanks!

It's held at UCLA, in their Motion Picture collection, but viewable only onsite: https://cinema.library.ucla.edu/vwe...hId=392&recCount=50&recPointer=1&bibId=117615

• Location: Non-circulating Safety Storage research copy
  
• Inventory Number: M58043
  
• Collection: MP Motion Picture Collection
  
• Format: 1 videocassette of 1 (VHS) : sd., b&w ; 1/2 in. ADDITIONAL PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: B&w work print of color film. Squeezed image (scope print source).
  
• Number of Items: 1
  
• Notes: Conservation copy.