Wrath of Khan deleted scene audio clip.

[Grant]

I was wondering if this audio clip from Wrath of Khan of a deleted scene is playable. It works on my phone but not sure if anybody else can hear it.
This is the deleted scene where Terrell tricks the Reliant into beaming him back on board. If it is not playable let me know and I'll try another method.

EDIT: apparently that link doesn't work I apologize.

 

[Indysolo]

Nope. All I get is a page that says, "
{"error":{"code":"EC-4008","requestId":"3c5816fd-911e-72ee-1ca3-d60001018300"}}"

 

[Vger23]

Ok so....what's up??

 

[Grant]

I have audio clips of about 20 deleted scenes from the work print that is at UCLA of Wrath of Khan. I have them downloaded into my laptop and I also have them as sound bites recorded on my phone. But I do not know how to put them into a format where I can post them in the thread. I apologize for my ineptitude when it comes to technology. I also have emailed them to other people and myself as a way of preserving them so they don't get lost if my phone or my computer die.
When I hit the link for the above clip ( now removed) it works on my phone but that's because it's already downloaded onto my phone. But presumably anybody else clicking on the link just gets an error. Very frustrating.
I know several people around here have seen the work print and have made copies one way or the other but for whatever reason have chose not to post them or provide a link.

 

[Grant]

Maybe this one will work.
A while back somebody took the audio clip I provided and put it in context with the existing audio and video of the scene where Sulu gets mentioned as being the new captain of The Excelsior.
Please note there's a long pause in the middle where they would have shown exterior footage of the Pod flying. So don't think it's over until Sulu says thank you sir I've looked forward to this for a long time.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Nightowl1701]

Kirk: "By the end of the month, you'll have your own command, the USS Excelsior."
Sulu: "I've been looking forward to that for a long time."
Spongebob Announcer Voice: "Nine. Years. Later."

So much for Shatner deliberately botching the take - sounded fine to me.

 

[Grant]

Exactly. 3 decades of rumors and accusations and once you see it and hear it there is no hint that he tried to botch a scene that took exactly 15 seconds of screen time. The point of the first half of the movie is that Kirk is somewhat depressed and unhappy with his life because he is no longer captain of a ship. So why exactly does George Takei think Kirk is supposed to be doing backflips and high-fiving Mister Sulu for getting a command? He matter-of-factly tells Sulu he'll be getting his own command while at the same time being unhappy with his own career. That's why they added the line in the scene which is not in the script of McCoy congratulating Sulu. Because McCoy not lamenting his own loss of worth is happy for Mister Sulu. So in the final analysis we have a somewhat melancholy Kirk mentioning that Sulu is getting his own ship Sulu is thrilled and McCoy is happy for him and the scene works just fine without any hint that it was sabotaged. Simply for whatever reason they felt it didn't need to be in the movie whether because of a possible sequel where they would want mr. Sulu with the rest of the crew or just because it added nothing to the story. Remember once filming had wrapped up and they saw how good the movie was turning out they started tweaking the movie in preparation for a sequel. They changed some of carols dialogue during the Genesis tape to indicate that genesis created life from death they added Spock saying remember they added Spock's tube on the Genesis planet and they probably removed sulu's promotion scene because it would get in the way of bringing the gang back together for part 3.

 

[Therin of Andor]

3 decades of rumors and accusations and once you see it and hear it there is no hint that he tried to botch a scene that took exactly 15 seconds of screen time.... So much for Shatner deliberately botching the take - sounded fine to me.

The work print has the only usable take. According to George, told to me by him in 1984 - long before it became part of his regular convention patter - Shatner botched George's closeup take with Shatner's traditional goofy eyeroll. Grace Lee Whitney and Yvonne Craig both mentioned this habit at conventions. It was Shatner's way of controlling which take got used, usually preventing his co-stars' closeups being usable, due to their unexpected reactions, and guaranteeing that Shatner's closeup was better.

Remember once filming had wrapped up and they saw how good the movie was turning out they started tweaking the movie in preparation for a sequel.

Including the "Remember..." mind meld.

Once Nimoy had expressed interest in returning, they started abandoning previous tenuous plans: ie. a series of telemovies with Saavik and David as romantic leads (all their shared looks had been trimmed, with the only developments left in the novelisations of II and then III), and a new ship for Sulu (the earliest beginnings of the "Captain Sulu" campaign, again only found in the novelisations for a long time).[/quote]

 

[Grant]

The work print has the only usable take if you believe George takei's version of the story. And regardless the work print HAS a usable take so therefore if they wanted to use it they would have.
George takei's version of the story is not necessarily gospel just because other members of the cast have bad things to say about William Shatner. Believe who or what you want to believe but don't stay it as fact what happened that day on the set when none of us were there because somebody with an axe to grind gave you their version

 

[Green]

Oops.

 

[Captain Thomas Wilson]

I was watching Star Trek 2 Wrath of Khan only the other night, directors cut. I had forgotten about the extra scenes. The best one has to be the young cadet suggesting that the Admiral could be as blind as a Tiberian Bat.

 

[Grant]

I like the extended dcenes with McCoy best. Never too much McCoy

 

[Dukhat]

Once Nimoy had expressed interest in returning, they started abandoning previous tenuous plans: ie. a series of telemovies with Saavik and David as romantic leads (all their shared looks had been trimmed, with the only developments left in the novelisations of II and then III), and a new ship for Sulu (the earliest beginnings of the "Captain Sulu" campaign, again only found in the novelisations for a long time).

Could you speak more about this? I've not heard this before.

 

[diankra]

The work print has the only usable take. According to George, told to me by him in 1984 - long before it became part of his regular convention patter - Shatner botched George's closeup take with Shatner's traditional goofy eyeroll. Grace Lee Whitney and Yvonne Craig both mentioned this habit at conventions. It was Shatner's way of controlling which take got used, usually preventing his co-stars' closeups being usable, due to their unexpected reactions, and guaranteeing that Shatner's closeup was better.



Including the "Remember..." mind meld.

Once Nimoy had expressed interest in returning, they started abandoning previous tenuous plans: ie. a series of telemovies with Saavik and David as romantic leads (all their shared looks had been trimmed, with the only developments left in the novelisations of II and then III), and a new ship for Sulu (the earliest beginnings of the "Captain Sulu" campaign, again only found in the novelisations for a long time).

[/QUOTE]
Silly question, but how does Shatner mess up a close-up of another actor? Surely he could only eye-roll in the master shot, or his own close-up?

 

[Grant]

First of all George takei's big scene that was cut from the movie included two whole lines of dialogue by George. Both of his lines are actually part of the scene as it exists. When he says I'm delighted any chance to go aboard Enterprise...."
They then cut off the part where he says "...however briefly is always a chance for nostalgia"
So literally half of his line was cut and apparently William Shatner was acting perfectly well in that first half of his line for the take to be usable. So now we're supposed to expect that he made a funny face during the second half of Takei's first line in the scene?
Then his second line is "thank you sir I've been looking forward to that for a long time"
And once again the take that is used in the movie picks up literally as he says the word "time".
In fact if you watch the scene closely you can actually see his mouth finish the word time.
And we are supposed to believe that somehow Shatner made funny faces during the split-second it takes to say thank you sir I've been waiting for that for a long time and then just as Takei finished his sentence his face went back to normal no longer making so-called funny faces.
Give me a break. This was not a long scene its 2 lines that literally take about one second a piece to spit out. And both of those lines are framed buy a full shot of the entire crew of the shuttle pot where they're all looking at the camera at the same time out the window of the shuttlepod. He's not even looking at Takei they're all four of them looking out the window basically so it's not a case of George saying his line to the camera while the actor facing him is making funny faces trying to blow his concentration. They're all looking in the same direction the director would see Shatner making the funny faces. He clearly was not making funny faces whatsoever during the shot that was used in the movie and he was not making funny faces during the intact scene in the work print. Get over it George. One of George Takei's complaints was that William Shatner as Captain Kirk wasn't thrilled for Mister Sulu to be getting a promotion. But as I stated in an earlier post Captain Kirk was not feeling in a particularly happy mood as a character during most of the movie It wasn't until the very end of the movie when he says I feel young that he's actually back to being optimistic. Shatner was simply staying in character as Captain Kirk was feeling at that point in the movie. In one interview Takei said and I'm paraphrasing "he's not acting excited and happy for my character to be getting a promotion".
But Shatner wasn't being directed by either the script or the director to act in a happy mood in that scene.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Silly question, but how does Shatner mess up a close-up of another actor? Surely he could only eye-roll in the master shot, or his own close-up?

According to the three actors I mentioned earlier, when the camera was on them, Shatner would sometimes cross his eyes or do a silly grin or eyeball roll, catching them off-guard. For these shots intercutting between two closeups, everything is covered at least twice by the director, and the editor chooses the best bits. While it could be laughed off as a gag (and saved for the Christmas party blooper reel - "Oh, that's Bill being Bill, the rogue"), it also meant that the best closeup usually ended up being Shatner's, not his co-stars'.

And we are supposed to believe that somehow Shatner made funny faces during the split-second it takes to say thank you sir I've been waiting for that for a long time and then just as Takei finished his sentence his face went back to normal no longer making so-called funny faces.

That's not how movies are made. It's my understanding that the whole scene is done for one actor's closeup, with the other actor (or a script person) reading off camera. Then reshot for the other's angle, with the best two takes being intercut.

I have heard the same story, personally, from three actors - Whitney, Takei and Craig - and have also heard Whitney and Craig discussing Shatner at conventions. I have also heard Takei with an audience, but I don't think he discussed this at that con.

I recall you and I have had this debate before. You don't have to believe me, or those actors. But it sounds plausible to me.

Could you speak more about this? I've not heard this before.

When Kirstie Alley and Merritt Butrick were signed for ST II, it was known that this was supposed to be Leonard Nimoy's last ever appearance as Spock. IIRC, some of this is covered in Allan Asherman's "Making of..." book for ST II. Remember that Nimoy had refused to participate in "Phase II", and there were thirteen scripts at various stages of development that had Xon, not Spock. Remember that Shatner had also indicated that, if his motion picture career had taken off and/or if "Phase II" had been only a mediocre ratings series, he was intending to jump ship at the midpoint of Season 1. Maybe do recurring Sweeps Week appearances as Admiral Kirk. Or not.

Before principal photography began, ST II was being produced by Paramount's television arm. It was to have been a telemovie, perhaps with an overseas theatrical release. And more telemovies, or a rejig of "Phase II", if successful. (It was upgraded to the motion picture arm not long after.) Alley and Butrick were to be groomed as romantic leads, should that series of telemovies take off. They had romantic glances filmed, but ultimate unused, for ST II.

Decker and Ilia had been written out at the end of TMP. Saavik was essentially a female Xon, but on the command track. Marcus was the scientist. But... at the wrap party for ST II, Nimoy told Harve Bennett that he had enjoyed the experience so much, he would return for ST III, especially if he could direct. Then Saavik was recast and Marcus was killed off, so any grooming of Alley and Butrick ended the minute Nimoy asked to return.

The brief line in ST II, about Sulu taking the captaincy of Excelsior, was added to appease Takei, not necessarily as a future spin-off. Even though it got trimmed, it stayed in the three Vonda McIntyre novelisations (but the books are only read by 2% of the viewing audience). A rallying cry for "Captain Sulu" among (some) fans developed after the popularity of ST IV. Remember, it was ILM's intention that their Excelsior model would be the new hero shop, but fans called it "the pregnant guppy" after ST III, so the movie Enterprise got an "A" added to its registry number. (Leaving Excelsior free for a "Captain Sulu" series.) The call for a Sulu series gained momentum when Takei was offered ST VI, and started advocating for a spin-off at conventions. And again after Voyager's "Flashback".

 

[ChristopherPike]

Of course, the obvious answer as to why that dialogue was never put back in the Director's Cut, is simply that the music crescendos around the original edit. And it having nothing to do with Takei's grievance with Shatner. It would've required rescoring the scene. Clearly James Horner came to the project, and the edits were designed to be "in-time" with his music. If you look at the footage put back, or alternate takes switched, there's either no music in those scenes, or just sound fx in the background - like the inspection with added cadet dialogue, or the Regula debate or Scotty and McCoy's various extra bits of dialogue. There's a clever extension to the existing music while Kirk tells Spock that David is his son, while climbing. But even Meyer changed his mind about that dialogue in the most recent version, deciding to leave it out entirely and going with just the score instead for those extra few seconds.

 

[Grant]

Yes I agree. The two most talked about scenes that were deleted where saavik being half Romulan and the captain Sulu scene. And when Meyer was assembling what footage he was going to add back for the television premiere in 1985 it's possible that he selected things that wouldn't contradict what had come since in the series. For example in Star Trek 3 saavik was not shown to be emotional as she was in Star Trek 2 so adding back some dialogue that explains why she's so emotional was kind of pointless once Robin Curtis had taken over the role and played her as a straight Vulcan. And as stated seven of the eight additions for the director's cut we're scenes that did not have musical score which would have eliminated adding back the captain Sulu dialogue of which they had at least one usable take as seen in the work print. But also if you add back in that dialogue and then there's no follow-up in Star Trek 3 then the audience is a little befuddled as to why they would add that material in and then drop the subject entirely in Star Trek 3. In the novel for Star Trek 3 they had a brief scene where the Admiral informs Sulu he won't be getting the Excelsior until all the Genesis controversy has died down. Another thing working against the Sulu dialogue was it the first half of the added material and the second half of the added material we're separated by stock footage of the shuttlepod from the first movie. So you have a line of dialogue by Sulu and Kirk then footage of the shuttlepod, then a line each by Kirk McCoy and Sulu talking about the promotion. The scene wasn't in earlier drafts and it was just thrown in as stated above to appease George Takei. It really was just a ploy get him to join the movie and make the fans think that they were one big happy family. Very cynical on the part of The Producers to throw him a bone and then take away the bone in editing not because of Shatner but because it just had nothing to do with the rest of the movie and would paint them into a corner if there did turn out to be a sequel.
And yes we're never going to agree about that scene as far as Shatner messing it up because of the fact as I stated earlier George Takei and William Shatner were not looking at each other at any point in the scene, except sideways glances. What Shatner supposedly did on some occasions was make faces while the camera was on the co-star and the camera was pointed at the back of Shatner's head. Then supposedly they had to use the shot of Shatner because the shot of the other actor was ruined but if you watch the scene they're both facing the camera at the same time so there was no point when the camera had them facing each other spouting the dialogue since they're all looking out the window pretending to see the Enterprise. Supposedly the actors on other occasions would claim he ruined their close up but the director wouldn't see what Shatner was doing because they were photographing the back of his head. If all the actors are facing in the same direction Shatner couldn't play stupid and pretend he didn't know what the other actor is talking about as he did supposedly on other occasions. The way the shuttlepod scene was filmed and blocked did not allow for the actors to be facing each other for the close-ups or any part of the scene. All you need to do is look at the scene to realize that.

 

[Therin of Andor]

All you need to do is look at the scene to realize that.

And you are seeing the usable take, not the (several?) ruined or otherwise unsuccessful ones.

 

[Grant]

I guarantee because I have common sense that there's no way he stared directly at the camera along with the other three performers and made faces While George Takei was speaking his lines.
What you described and what other actors have described was him messing up takes where the camera was facing the other actors face over his shoulder. That way he could supposedly make faces and Crosses eyes and mess up the other actors take while nobody except the other actor could see what he was doing. But in this particular scene they are all facing the camera. And what an actor might do on a weekly TV show where he's the star might be altogether different than what he would do on a major motion picture with a movie director. He would have lost all respect in the eyes of Nicholas Meyer if he was making faces into the camera where everybody could see it theoretically maybe he could still do something stupid like that but not with his face to the camera the entire scene is faces to the camera