Wouldn't recent events lead to full war between Fed and Romulan Free State?

[Anson Mount Seleya]

The burden of proof is on the Romulans to show that those 218 warbird crews weren't also involved with Mars, which was very much Federation territory.

We've seen the attack on Mars, there were no Romulan Warbirds involved. And besides, even cloaked there's no way a Romulan Warbird could make it all the way to the capital system of the Federation undetected, let alone 218.

And like it or not, being suborned by an intelligence agency does get the crews of those warbirds and the Romulan government off the hook. Like the joint Cardassian-Romulan fleet that attacked the Founder's homeworld in DS9's third season. They were under the control of the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order, which the Dominion considered satisfactory enough to allow the Cardassians to later join the Dominion and the Romulans to sign a non-aggression pact. If the Dominion were willing to forgive two governments for the actions of their intelligence agencies, I think the Federation will also.

 

[Yistaan]

We've seen the attack on Mars, there were no Romulan Warbirds involved. And besides, even cloaked there's no way a Romulan Warbird could make it all the way to the capital system of the Federation undetected, let alone 218.

And like it or not, being suborned by an intelligence agency does get the crews of those warbirds and the Romulan government off the hook. Like the joint Cardassian-Romulan fleet that attacked the Founder's homeworld in DS9's third season. They were under the control of the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order, which the Dominion considered satisfactory enough to allow the Cardassians to later join the Dominion and the Romulans to sign a non-aggression pact. If the Dominion were willing to forgive two governments for the actions of their intelligence agencies, I think the Federation will also.

We'll see next season if Oh is on the run from the Romulans if it's even mentioned. In which case the Fed wouldn't have issues with the Romulans. But if the Romulans are harboring her, as was implied in the season finale (Oh was heading back to Romulan space after all), the Fed will be demanding her back.

 

[Kor]

There are probably various Romulan factions with control in different parts of the former Star Empire. Oh's Tal Shiar/Zhat Vash fleet might have nothing to do with the Free State.

Kor

 

[Yistaan]

There are probably various Romulan factions with control in different parts of the former Star Empire. Oh's Tal Shiar/Zhat Vash fleet might have nothing to do with the Free State.

Kor

Narissa Rizzo cited Romulan Free State law as her "justification" for killing Hugh. Oh also cited the Treaty of Algeron as if it applied to her and her fleet.

 

[Makarov]

They should have Terry O'Quinn reprise Pressman and lead a war against the romulans.

Its Star Trek the UFP does not even jail murderers...hello Dr Jurati and Dr Daystrom.

Lon Suder got locked up

 

[Drunk Superman]

agree. I'm not saying the Fed's going to immediately bombard New Romulus, but if the Romulan Free State doesn't start handing over Oh and the Zhat Vash, the Fed will invade any Romulan planet she's hiding on to arrest her.

This assumes the RFS knows where the Zhat Vash are.

Narissa Rizzo cited Romulan Free State law as her "justification" for killing Hugh.

Doesn't mean much coming from Rizzo and Oh.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Admiral Clancy, the head of Starfleet, knew exactly who and what Oh was

Um...when and where was this established?

 

[rfmcdpei]

Um...when and where was this established?

It was not at all. Clancy showed a willingness to investigate the claims of Picard, even, and was sabotaged only by her ignorance of the allegiance of Oh.

As for the wider question of Federation-Romulan relations, I think that the existence of the Zhat Vash as a secret sect all but unknown to the Tal Shiar is key. I have absolutely no problem believing that the legitimate Romulan government knew nothing of the ZV conspiracy, simply being fine with the anti-AI bent of Romulan civilization.

That said, a Romulan government that demonstrably lacks control over domestic conspiracies, to the point that said are able to use Romulan resources to attack Federation targets, is a huge problem.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

No.

No more than the standoff near Checkpoint Charlie in Berlin in 1961 led to a Third World War in central Europe or the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 led to a nuclear exchange. Confrontation between armed vessels does not always lead to all-out war.

 

[Yistaan]

No.

No more than the standoff near Checkpoint Charlie in Berlin in 1961 led to a Third World War in central Europe or the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 led to a nuclear exchange. Confrontation between armed vessels does not always lead to all-out war.

Um, this is about justice for 92,000 Mars deaths, not Riker's macho act...

If any of the events you stated led to 92,000 deaths, there likely would have been a war. As they didn't, your analogies are irrelevant.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

Seeing as they happened 14 years earlier I doubt all-out war would happen. A lot of diplomatic fire and conflict between emissaries and ambassadors? Yes. Threats? Probably. War over something that the intelligence service of a now-largely-defunct power did 14 years ago and most likely without official sanction by the leaders of a Star Empire that technically no longer exists?

Call me skeptical.

That would be like the Soviet KGB killing thousands of Americans and it going undiscovered that they were behind it, the fall of the Soviet Union happening and a new era of relations between East and West taking precedence over past animosities and the U.S. then declaring war on the Russian Federation for something its then-current leaders had no part in.

 

[Yistaan]

Seeing as they happened 14 years earlier I doubt all-out war would happen. A lot of diplomatic fire and conflict between emissaries and ambassadors? Yes. Threats? Probably. War over something that the intelligence service of a now-largely-defunct power did 14 years ago and most likely without official sanction by the leaders of a Star Empire that technically no longer exists?

Call me skeptical.

War would be averted if Oh and all her Zhat Vash were handed over to the Fed for trial unconditionally and immediately (or if she's hiding then the Romulan State puts in a good faith effort to find her).

If she's outright being harbored in Romulan space, as the finale implied (Oh was going back there, not running off to hide into the unknown), then I do see the Fed entering Romulan space to arrest her. And while the Fed may not want war, if her arrest leads to it so be it. The Romulans shouldn't harbor mass murderers.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

Border tensions and even scattered violence, sure. I doubt the Federation wants war with a rump state that is a mere shadow of its previous size, power and influence. Cooler heads tend to prevail in Federation circles.

 

[Yistaan]

Border tensions and even scattered violence, sure. I doubt the Federation wants war with a rump state that is a mere shadow of its previous size, power and influence. Cooler heads tend to prevail in Federation circles.

Admiral Leyton, Admiral Pressman, Section 31, Admiral Marcus etc.? Marcus was itching to fight the Klingons for practically no reason at all, and over far less than Oh did.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

I didn't say Starfleet. I said Federation. The civilian leadership tends to be a lot more skittish about war than hotheaded Starfleet officers. If they weren't the Federation would have been to war every other year during the 24th century.

 

[Yistaan]

I didn't say Starfleet. I said Federation. The civilian leadership tends to be a lot more skittish about war than hotheaded Starfleet officers. If they weren't the Federation would have been to war every other year during the 24th century.

Ok you got me. I can see Jaresh Inyo saying "Maybe the Romulans can give 1,000 kilograms of latinum to each of the Mars survivors and we'll call it a day."

 

[GhoulEddie74]

I know you're being facetious, but yeah, the elected civilian leaders of the Federation and members of the Federation Council are routinely depicted as valuing negotiations and peaceful resolution of conflict above all else and war is their last resort. Jaresh-Inyo had to be dragged kicking and screaming into even declaring a state of martial law on Earth at the height of a Founder scare and following a terrorist attack on the planet, the first such incident in over a century.

I sympathize with your take on it, I really do. I'd be tempted to follow the Romulan fleet back into their space and arrest Oh at gunpoint to take back for trial. But the Federation is depicted as otherwise in most cases.

 

[Yistaan]

I sympathize with your take on it, I really do. I'd be tempted to follow the Romulan fleet back into their space and arrest Oh at gunpoint to take back for trial. But the Federation is depicted as otherwise in most cases.

The fact is, if the Romulans don't hand her over, we have no guarantee she won't stage another attack now that the synth ban is lifted. If the Fed doesn't push for an extradition, the next attack will be on them and the citizens will vote the entire Federation Council out of office.

There may even be member secession. 14 worlds were going to secede over the Romulan evacuation. I think they just would secede period if the Fed lets Oh get away with the murder of 92,000.

And I'll bet the Federation News Network and journalist Richter would have a thing or two to say about the Federation letting Oh get away so easily.

 

[rahullak]

It might appear as news in S2 that Starfleet is searching for Oh. I think it is less likely that our protagonists would be directly involved in her capture, since it is a S1 plot residue.

But you never know.

 

[Sci]

What exactly would be the purpose of going to war with the Romulan Free State? Or the endgame goal?

The Federation knows that the Mars Attack was masterminded by Nedar under her "Oh" alias, and that it was the product of a small conspiracy within the Tal Shiar called the Zhat Vash. The Federation can reasonably demand that the Free State extradite Nedar and other Zhat Vash members, but what can it reasonably demand beyond that? The Mars Attack took place under the Star Empire, and the Star Empire is gone. The Romulan people have sundered into multiple competing states.

I mean, seriously, what's the Federation gonna do? Invade the Free State? Occupy New Romulus? What's the end game here?

Just ask the United States how well that strategy has worked out in Afghanistan.