There's better odds than one niche property restoration.
Poll Would you purchase a legit remaster of DS9?
- Thread starter SlayerSantiago
- Start date
Yeah, that's probably what the US government said before it ended up 34 trillion in the hole.
Just because it cost 200b to merge, doesn't mean it will maintain that value in a year.
200b is the dumbest gamble I've ever seen....until Venezuela and Saddam 2.0 next year.
Also, I don't see the point in continuing this when we disagree, must we continue going in circles?
It's repetitive. You don't want it to happen, I do. But it's not up to me.
I'll concede that much.
I agree, but there is greater diversity in that merger of possible revenue streams rather than one niche. I'm no financial expert but I always read that diversifying funds was smarter than just one.
I agree with diversifying funds, when it's not 200 billion spent in less than 6 months.
Since we're off topic, 200 billion is insane. I hope that works out though.
I'm hoping that if you're right, it makes it a safer bet to do the remasters.
But my theory is, that works in a microcosm on the streaming side as is.
Taylor Sheridan's programming, South Park, Spongebob, and Sports were what brought it money, making the Trek niche safer.
Those programs allow the streaming service, and the studio to take dents, and those remasters despite the cost would be a very small dent anyway.
My metrics were based on public data.
So, altogether, demand to profit?
17million invested, 112 million to profit.
In order of how the money got made?
1. Streaming
2. Pluto/Syndication
3. Digital sales.
4. Physical media (Niche collector's market.)
At minimum to be profitable it needs to make 3x back the investment, that's 1x to cover the cost, and 2x to be considered profitable.
TNG likely made more than 3x, but under-performed with the target number the company had in mind.
So, if it made back 36 million (which it likely made more) but Paramount had say 56 million in mind, then it very likely underperformed.
At this point, the market wasn't as saturated as it is today, which is why I think DS9 would be even more profitable.
12 years ago, people didn't want to re up their collections to bluray, and had barely gotten HD TVs, and Streaming was undercutting things, the way Jeff Bezos undercut media chains like Hastings.
So, it could have been profitable and underperformed in an undersaturated market.
Things are more far more saturated today, because seeds were planted in the 2000s, and the 2010s, and Paramount was interested in a DS9 remaster in 2013, and has tried to get a project going for a long time. IMO, back in 2010, 7 billion was a lot of money, and the closest thing we had to a centibillionaire in the USA were Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. There weren't centibillionaires in America back then. Deals like what we're seeing today were unheard of.
The market has grown, but not as fast as the centibillionaire class imagined, it's still grown by orders of magnitude but has underperformed, (Techies don't have realistic expectations for space and computers, they exaggerate what they can do today. To sell, and the Stock Market continues to invest in a vibe <What I think all economies and governments are...arbitrary vibes, there's no real recession, ultimately, it's made real by an arbitrary vibe, that means nothing...until it does.>)
Because of the Kelvin Timeline, Remasters of TOS and TNG, and newer productions that are considered lesser, and a global Pandemic, Star Trek is a bigger franchise today, than it was in 2005, while still not being at it's 2013 peak.
But, if you look at Voyager and DS9, even when the franchise shit the bed by 2004, the games were still well loved, the expanded TNG era, (DS9 and Voyager) still had massive cult followings, and have consistantly stayed there.
Twin Peaks has a much smaller following than DS9, and it's still profitable. Even with hopes of a new season being squashed in January, RIP David Lynch.
It's still a staple of how to gauge a cult following.
One assumption, the new markets are multiple channels of revenue, and it's not dependent on bluray boxsets alone, or even first.
The 2013 dissatisfaction with TNG is old, in a less mature market, where Paramount was run by old studio leaders who enjoyed shooting themselves in the foot until it ended badly in 2018.
I wasn't satisfied with that data, but my guess was that.
I wanted more, and only Paramount has real data, not inferred BS like me.
Voyager, idk, but it looks even more profitable.
The games side of it looks like it's going to make a big splash.
The International audience of Voyager was twice DS9.
DS9 was popular domestically and in the UK.
DS9 and Voyager's docs start at 150k, and respectively pulled 650k and 1.2 million.
(That was some of the data, and not all of it.)
The rise in popularity for both of them happened during the Pandemic.
The other thing is, it's not going to fail like TNG, but it also can't exactly be priced like TNG.
Streaming generates long term revenue, (They think short term, and not long term.)
120 on a digital market.
_________This is a niche, so god knows how much revenue it would generate._________
350 for a bespoke collector's set.
250 dollar boxsets seem to be the norm, and that would possibly be a 4k release.
150 for standard blu.
90-120 for existing crap DVD sets.
I think it's an investment, it was reflected to me the more I dug in.
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I'd say they'd know better than fans on both sides of the issue. Ideally, anyway. That's not to ignore what Outcast91 said.
New Coke, Betamax, gigantic gaps between Kelvin Star Trek films, the decade of the 1920s and what it led to, etc. All being prime examples.
I think saying "SD is fine!" in 2025 is like saying "B&W is fine!" in 1980. Both are roughly 15 years after the standards for television finished changing over.
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If, for the sake of argument (meaning this is all hypothetical), DS9 (and VOY) are re-mastered, I'd buy them. "What people say and what people will do are two different things!" Not in this case. Unless I were to be hit with an extreme financial hardship that I can't foresee, I'll buy it. And if it's not made available through physical media, I'll stream it. Either way.
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Even in financial hardship, I'll probably make an exception for DS9 and Voyager.
I'm that die hard about it.
The only thing that comes before those is my dog.
That being said.
It appears the old fiefdom plan is still in effect.
This has little if anything to do with the Warner Squabble.
That being said, so far, there hasn't been a crap AI upscale output by the studio.
It's still 480i on streaming, I'll take that as a sign.
Anything else I've been doing, is trying to understand what their thought process is from the scraps of information I could dig up.
I'm that die hard about it.
The only thing that comes before those is my dog.
That being said.
It appears the old fiefdom plan is still in effect.
This has little if anything to do with the Warner Squabble.
That being said, so far, there hasn't been a crap AI upscale output by the studio.
It's still 480i on streaming, I'll take that as a sign.
Anything else I've been doing, is trying to understand what their thought process is from the scraps of information I could dig up.
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I’ve gotta confess that my DS9 dvds actually look pretty decent when upscaled on my blu ray player, and with a little judicious tweaking of brightness, contrast, saturation, etc. Although generally the picture quality for the first couple of seasons is not good, I think that’s to do with the way the show was shot. The streaming quality on Netflix and P+ looks dreadful though. If I was travelling and watched an episode on my iPad, the picture was mud. Another reason I’m not keen on streaming services.
Can’t comment on Voyager as I’m not a fan and never really watch it.
I genuinely don’t see a remaster on the cards for the foreseeable future, so I guess the key is maximising what we’ve got.
Can’t comment on Voyager as I’m not a fan and never really watch it.
I genuinely don’t see a remaster on the cards for the foreseeable future, so I guess the key is maximising what we’ve got.
New Coke etc. are famous because they are atypical examples. Most of the time the planners have a pretty good idea how much people will be willing to pay and what it will cost to provide it.
I'm glad colorizing classic B&W films didn't really catch on.
True, but even B&W movies have been re-released in High Definition.
"Is there a market to upscale DS9 and VOY?" "Yes there is!" "No there isn't!" "Yes there is!" "No there isn't!" It's a vicious cycle. TOS and TNG were re-mastered during a time when there were no current Star Trek series. If we end up in that spot again after Alex Kurtzman's contract expires, maybe they'll reconsider, to fill in the gap, and maybe they won't.
And I'll leave it there. I don't want to do the "going around in circles" thing, personally.
Semi-tangential, but it's strictly on technical realities:
Note time index 4:34, though I've babbled the similar idea in the past at 4:59. Or watch the whole video if you really want a good time as he's sure as heck entertaining.
Note time index 4:34, though I've babbled the similar idea in the past at 4:59. Or watch the whole video if you really want a good time as he's sure as heck entertaining.
Just curious, here: Video streaming platforms existed when these episodes were remastered, but I'm thinking you're thinking the blu-ray sales relevant to the first week that they were put out? Are we also talking street price or MSRP, as the former is often considerably less than the latter...
Star Trek: The Next Generation Ratings and Stats
Detailed popularity and online audience engagement ratings for Star Trek: The Next Generation, updated daily. Understand audience and viewership trends through data, charts, and how Star Trek: The Next Generation ranks compared to thousands of other TV shows.
If memory serves, CBS Digital was behind the remastering project* and they thought it would be a big seller with known statistics of the time. Whatever those statistics were, there are many none of us might know of or remember.
* Source: https://trekmovie.com/trek-remastered/tng-remastered/ which also mentions some streaming information, albeit limited. When the full series was finally put up on streaming service(s) due to licensing agreements is also another piece to the full puzzle.
Yeah, I was waiting for that one, and I'll say it again, they made money.
The narrative they didn't make money is bullshit.
Later seasons kinda benefit from digibetacam.
It has nothing to do with how it was shot, and more to do with how it was mastered.
You're losing a lot of resolution in early seasons (They were shot a lot sharper), and later seasons were shot softer, and mastered digitally. (Later Seasons were shot almost like the West Wing, but not nearly as soft.)
But even then, they're still a lot sharper than what the DVDs offer.
But from what I've seen in what We Left Behind, that show is too visually stunning to leave on DVD, and a mere upscale isn't going to do it justice.
Voyager was apparently framed for 16:9 from day one, at least that's what I could infer.
DS9 is probably going to look about as good as later seasons of TNG on bluray, when it happens.
Voyager could look like that, but in 16:9.
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