Would You Like Earth To Join A Federation?

[All Seeing Eye]

rotorbotor said:

Fire said:
Just imagine for a moment that we develop warp drive and set off out into the stars and explore strange new worlds and new life and new civilisations and we come across an Organisation called the the United Alliance of Planets , they offer Earth membership but we must conform to their laws and we hand power over to their 'council' with our planet sending a representative, also if we wanna travel on starships we must join their Starfleet. Would you like Earth to join? or would you prefer to go it alone like the Klingons/Romulans and Cardassians in Trek?

Obviously in this scenario Earth isnt a founding world and we are the outsiders being offered membership.
Would we as a people really give up our sovereignty to an organisation like this?

We are becoming part of the American Federation.

America is taking us over through globalisation and their mega corporations who use bribes,blackmail and murder to further their aims.

They are enforcing their brutal capitalist policies on every one to profit at our expense.

This repulsive American federation is rotten and corrupt to the core as every single one of their congressman accepts donations from BIG BUSINESS to pass laws in favouer
of BIG BUSINESS.

They have used the 9/11 incident to pass draconian laws and subvert individual human rights.

This is not the Star Trek Federation but the Blake's 7 Federation.

I bow to your wisdom.

 

[MANT!]

Well, As an American citizen, I often disagree with the UN's stance on membership..

Termis Said:

There has to be some kind of taxes or other kinds of support (if not money) from member worlds for Starfleet. Otherwise why doesn't everyone just kick back and say "let the stupid hew-mons handle it." Hmm, waitaminute...

In regards to the UN budget, the USA pays more that it's "fair share" based on population..(I know that we are a rich nation right now) but it seems to have less and less influence on UN policy...


that's not the kind of organization I want running things around here..

So I'm happy with the current national government set-up..

Damn grey aliens want to set up an alliance..it'd better damn well negociate with the US government..not the flippin' UN...

 

[Sci]

goldbug said:
Damn grey aliens want to set up an alliance..it'd better damn well negociate with the US government..not the flippin' UN...

I'm fairly certain that they could only negotiate with the UN isnofar as its Member States agreed to allow the UN to conduct extra-terrestrial negotiations on their behalf. The UN is not and does not claim to be a government, however, so it would not be legally empowered to negotiate on the behalf of its Member States without their consent.

 

[Plum]

goldbug said:
Well, As an American citizen, I often disagree with the UN's stance on membership..

<SNIP!>

Weird, that stuff was written by Americans, in the late 60s (mostly). That's just a weird thing to say. The UN was created by and is headquartered in the US. You know this. Right?

 

[MANT!]

Yes I'm well aware New York's UN building is quite famous and I did enjoy my visit..but it never has lived up to it's promise...and am also aware on the lessening of American influence in that body..(yeah I know it's the Neocons..but jeeze..at least look at some of the member states..and what they have done internally)...

seems that there should've been a "standard" to meet similar to what the EU tried...


But as those rules were set up in the 40s by the winners of WW2...(not just the USA and the Uk but also including "Uncle Joe Stalin" who killed more of his own people than the Nazis did)..it's not surprising the UN doesn't have stndards of membership..

 

[starburst]

goldbug said:
Damn grey aliens want to set up an alliance..it'd better damn well negociate with the US government..not the flippin' UN...

They better not unless the rest of the US' Allied Nations agree

If little grey/green (whatever) men turn up one day I hope we see sence in forming a new group to negociate, its likely just going to be the G8 leaders (or nominated speakers) plus one of two others as the US would never be allowed to go alone (and a Fed style group would want to talk to the planet as a whole not one nation)

 

[Anwar]

Most likely is we were to become aware of Aliens we'd face the "Macross" scenario: The major powers decide to form some kind of major governing body to prepare Earth for eventual full contact, the remaining nations all objecting to this and we'd end up in some major civil war where the pro and anti-unification powers fight until only one remains to deal with the alien situation.

Trek side-stepped this scenario by having most of the world governments already destroyed by the time of contact so the only thing we could do was form a single government.

 

[aelius]

rotorbotor said:

Fire said:
Just imagine for a moment that we develop warp drive and set off out into the stars and explore strange new worlds and new life and new civilisations and we come across an Organisation called the the United Alliance of Planets , they offer Earth membership but we must conform to their laws and we hand power over to their 'council' with our planet sending a representative, also if we wanna travel on starships we must join their Starfleet. Would you like Earth to join? or would you prefer to go it alone like the Klingons/Romulans and Cardassians in Trek?

Obviously in this scenario Earth isnt a founding world and we are the outsiders being offered membership.
Would we as a people really give up our sovereignty to an organisation like this?

We are becoming part of the American Federation.

America is taking us over through globalisation and their mega corporations who use bribes,blackmail and murder to further their aims.

They are enforcing their brutal capitalist policies on every one to profit at our expense.

This repulsive American federation is rotten and corrupt to the core as every single one of their congressman accepts donations from BIG BUSINESS to pass laws in favouer
of BIG BUSINESS.

They have used the 9/11 incident to pass draconian laws and subvert individual human rights.

This is not the Star Trek Federation but the Blake's 7 Federation.

Wow, tell us what you REALLY think!

 

[Plum]

goldbug said:
Yes I'm well aware New York's UN building is quite famous and I did enjoy my visit..but it never has lived up to it's promise...and am also aware on the lessening of American influence in that body..(yeah I know it's the Neocons..but jeeze..at least look at some of the member states..and what they have done internally)...

seems that there should've been a "standard" to meet similar to what the EU tried...


But as those rules were set up in the 40s by the winners of WW2...(not just the USA and the Uk but also including "Uncle Joe Stalin" who killed more of his own people than the Nazis did)..it's not surprising the UN doesn't have standards of membership..

Hmmm... so the Klingons could never be accepted by the Federation, with that logic. Right?

 

[Plum]

You know... the United Federation of Planets is just a metaphorical U.N. And like the U.N.s Security Council, the Federation has a "Federation Council". However, the Federation Council seems to be more benevolent.

Like the space program and the culture movements in the late 60s, the U.N. was a serious hope by nations, especially Americans, who genuinely wanted to see a better future for their children... especially in the face of nuclear apocalypse. Star Trek, as being a part of those times, symbolized and homaged that hope. That relevance of those times.

The U.N., created after the horror of WWII, was an attempt at a planetary diplomatic forum. It has it's flaws, such as the most powerful members who control the Security Council. For example, it's clearly a crime, under international law established after WWII in the U.N. that aggressive invasion of another country is illegal. Yet, when a major member does so (it's not just the US in Iraq, I don't wanna be obvious. We could bring up Chechnya or Tibet)... somehow... the 'laws' are obscured, feared, obfuscated.

But if the U.N., which does have successes (such as peace keeping and aide) is just thrown out the window we, I believe, would be regressing planetary relations to the 19th Century.

... just sayin'. Let the Klingons have a seat in the council!

 

[jddj34]

We are becoming part of the American Federation.

America is taking us over through globalisation and their mega corporations who use bribes,blackmail and murder to further their aims.

They are enforcing their brutal capitalist policies on every one to profit at our expense.

This repulsive American federation is rotten and corrupt to the core as every single one of their congressman accepts donations from BIG BUSINESS to pass laws in favouer
of BIG BUSINESS.

They have used the 9/11 incident to pass draconian laws and subvert individual human rights.

This is not the Star Trek Federation but the Blake's 7 Federation.

I take BIG OFFENCE to that whole statement. The america the rest of the world sees is not the america I and my countrymen are. we are hardworking honest people who are just as angry at the establishment and the banking clans as everyone else is. I am not going to go into the rest here as I don't want to start an american vs. the world thread so for my thoughts PM me.

 

[Stormrage]

I would say yes. If there was an alliance it would mean that these aliens have been in space a lot longer then humans. Maybe even 1000 years +. If we join Earth would advance really faster then it would by it's self. Look at Poland and the Czech Republic. If it wasn't for them joining the EU they would still be the backwaters of Europe.

 

[Plum]

Blakes7 Federation... nice line.

I take BIG OFFENCE to that whole statement. The america the rest of the world sees is not the america I and my countrymen are. we are hardworking honest people who are just as angry at the establishment and the banking clans as everyone else is. I am not going to go into the rest here as I don't want to start an american vs. the world thread so for my thoughts PM me.

Relax, it's all true. However, it's not fair to blame Americans in general, it's not like you voted for these guys. Right? Replace the word "America" with "Washington" and it all makes perfect sense.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Guys, please keep this on topic

 

[C.E. Evans]

Earth would never join a Federation because we'd be too busy fighting among ourselves.

 

[Plum]

Earth would never join a Federation because we'd be too busy fighting among ourselves.

Yes certainly but the whole point of Star Trek is that we got past all this crap. It's a fantasy, a hope, a conceit.

 

[Plum]

I would say yes. If there was an alliance it would mean that these aliens have been in space a lot longer then humans. Maybe even 1000 years +. If we join Earth would advance really faster then it would by it's self. Look at Poland and the Czech Republic. If it wasn't for them joining the EU they would still be the backwaters of Europe.

Funny, but that wasn't the original TOS vision, I reckon. I can't quote sources, but the thing is that it was the creation of star fleet that brought the vision of a united planetary union, just as it was America that invited the world to come together in the UN so many years ago. Forget ENT. The original vision was that it was EARTH that brought warp drive and exploration to the future just as America brought technology, freedom, and the space program. That it was the human spirit that yearned to venture out into the stars, no matter the dangers. To boldly go...