Would you Join the Dominion?

[Tyjos Azari]

Though after a while I'd end up like Quark...Getting tired of the Jem'Hadar standing around...staring....they don't eat,they don't drink,and they don't have sex.....lolz!

Quark: "I WANT TO SERVE ROOT BEER AGAIN!!"

I'm sure even if you were a Dominion Citizen and had lots of contact with the other races...I'm sure the Vorta would see you as a threat cause of your ideas and probably kill you to keep that spreading to the rest of the population.

 

[Jono]

We don't really have much of an idea what live under the Dominion would be like, apart from the odd situation of the Cardassian Union where due to events the Cardassians were allowed to act almost as equals with the Vorta and Jem'Hadar. Dukat had to be insane if he thought that would last.

Of the Dominion members we saw in the GQ, the Karemma and Dosi, they seem to operate with little to no Dominion oversight. I don't think we even heard that the Dominion maintain a presence on their worlds and the system seems to be "join the Dominion and we'll give you a toll free subspace number to call us on".

The OP mentioned that an advantage is that you get Jem'Hadar to supplement your military. I suspect that this arrangement would be in the short term. Given the Dominion's need for control I don't see them allowing a military force that they don't have significant control of to exist in their space. Over time you would think they would squeeze out the native military until all aspects are solely the responsibilities of the Jem'Hadar and Vorta. Short term lose for long term gain.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

I agree with another poster that liberty is a human ideal.

Cardassians are an interstellar fascist species. they're very being is based on loyalty to the state and obedience to the state. they couldn't give a rat's ass about freedom, as a human would see it. Since the Obsidian Order existed for hundreds of years, then what else can be gauged from them?

So what was up with those Cardassian dissidents, eh?

'Those Cardassian dissidents' are a minority, as opposed to the majority who are quite content to slavishly obey the state.

Joining the Dominion, for cardassians, is exchanging old masters for new ones.
BUT these new ones don't guarantee security in anything but words - there's no such thing as increased security in the dominion. The founders made it clear time and again that the subject species are utterly expendable, their lives valued very low in the Dominion.


Joining the Dominion is exchanging freedom for slavery. There's no security gained. If it's even slightly in their interest, or if you displease them, the founders won't hesitate to kill you, let you to die at some invader's hands, etc.

Of the Dominion members we saw in the GQ, the Karemma and Dosi, they seem to operate with little to no Dominion oversight. I don't think we even heard that the Dominion maintain a presence on their worlds and the system seems to be "join the Dominion and we'll give you a toll free subspace number to call us on".

The Dominion's system is also - If we tell you to jump, you ask how high. And if you don't, the jem'hadar will let you know the price of disobedience.

The OP mentioned that an advantage is that you get Jem'Hadar to supplement your military. I suspect that this arrangement would be in the short term. Given the Dominion's need for control I don't see them allowing a military force that they don't have significant control of to exist in their space. Over time you would think they would squeeze out the native military until all aspects are solely the responsibilities of the Jem'Hadar and Vorta. Short term lose for long term gain.

The Dominion won't engage in such diplomatic niceties in the GQ. It will just command: "By tommorow, your army will be disbanded". And you do it, or you pay in blood for your disobedience.

 

[DevilEyes]

I agree with another poster that liberty is a human ideal.

Cardassians are an interstellar fascist species. they're very being is based on loyalty to the state and obedience to the state. they couldn't give a rat's ass about freedom, as a human would see it. Since the Obsidian Order existed for hundreds of years, then what else can be gauged from them?

So what was up with those Cardassian dissidents, eh?

'Those Cardassian dissidents' are a minority, as opposed to the majority who are quite content to slavishly obey the state.

Well, guess what, 'those [insert any real-life human nation with an autocratic system] dissidents' also are/were a minority, as opposed to the majority who are/were quite content to slavishly obey the state. The majority in any human society is "silent majority" who is content to obey whoever is on power, or isn't brave or able enough to do anything against them.

So? What does that tell us about humans? That they don't give a rat's ass about freedom? That liberty is not a human ideal?

 

[ProtoAvatar]

So what was up with those Cardassian dissidents, eh?

'Those Cardassian dissidents' are a minority, as opposed to the majority who are quite content to slavishly obey the state.

Well, guess what, 'those [insert any real-life human nation with an autocratic system] dissidents' also are/were a minority, as opposed to the majority who are/were quite content to slavishly obey the state. The majority in any human society is "silent majority" who is content to obey whoever is on power, or isn't brave or able enough to do anything against them.

So? What does that tell us about humans? That they don't give a rat's ass about freedom? That liberty is not a human ideal?

What does it tell about most humans?
It tells that, for most humans, having a wealthy life has priority over freedom.
Is freedom an ideal? Maybe - but NOT one worth sacrificing oneself or one's wealth over. NOT a prioritary one.

Of course, the cardassians' state not only opressed its citizens; it can only be compared to the most imperialistic regimes in our history - Hitler's being an obvious example.
And the cardassians supported the autocratic and imperialistic policy of the state - or, to be more exact, they didn't care, were not interested in who died for their wealth, as long as it was not cardassian; they didn't care about freedom, as long as they had prosperity.

 

[indolover]

Cardassians were a different species to humans. so their psychology and being is different. what then is normal or right to a Cardassian is different to a human.

Cardassians were militaristic since their personality as a species was authoritarian and militaristic. Klingons are warriors since by nature they are aggressive and confrontational. Romulans were almost universally seen as treacherous and deceitful since by nature Romulan society valued cunning.

 

[Tyjos Azari]

I just want to chime in here and say that I am PLEASED with this debate/discussion.

If i started this on any other forum well by now it would have descended into Chaos and I would have been forced to call in the Jem'Hadar[Moderators] Trek BBS is already making me feel so much better now that I've found a good place with other Trekkies here!

I think the key thing is that when you Join the Dominion is that you set your terms [reasonable of course] with the Negotiating Vorta. After all if they simply aren't interested in you [like as a I said a small colony world far from anyone else and not really a strategic position for anyone] You CAN benefit from being protected by the Dominion.

After all a Small Colony world that just minds it's own business and doesn't get in the affairs of others shouldn't be a problem at all. Sure there might be a few groups that wouldn't agree with the governing body's agreement but then again being part of the Dominion is preferable to being Invaded and having so many of your citizens killed when all it would have taken at first is skilled negotiations.

Small Colony worlds probably don't have their own military but at least have some security forces. Over time, you would come to accept the Vorta and Jem' Hadar as friends not enemies and simply agree to their requests that they make and if you have a problem with them you can simply talk it out.

I myself wouldn't mind having a Vorta for a Friend,they could offer so much advice from the Dominion's standpoint on so many things [that I know of]

In fact if you were to get your own defense force trained by Jem'Hadar even they would get put back in reserve and would benefit from that combat Training and might prove their value to the Founders.


After all who can't forget what they say?

Obedience brings Victory,and Victory is Life.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Dominion

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Tyjos Azari

It's clear you find jem'hadar cool and are salivating over the possibility of them fighting for you.
The problem is - as they were established, the jem'hadar will NEVER fight for you. They only fight for the founders.

As for making a treaty with the dominion:
If they're not interested in you, they'll ignore you aka they will have absolutely no interest in protecting you/making a treaty with you.
If they are interested in you/your resources, they'll conquer you, making you their slave. It goes without saying the only stipulation in this treaty is - we order, you obey.

Other kinds of treaties with the Dominion are forced by circumstances (such as some made in the alpha quadrant) and are not worth the paper they're written on beyond the short-term.

 

[Tyjos Azari]

So in other words,dealing with the Dominion is dangerous. Either Joining them or even if you have a Non Agression Pact, after seeing "In The Pale Moonlight" I can see why.

Though if you were a peaceful world so to speak...one of those worlds that's hmmm I can't remember the name of that planet where Wesley Crusher violated the law that was a peace loving planet....

I'm sure you'd want nothing to do with the war even if your planet was located in Dominion Held space.

Besides it's not like if you have friends that are Vorta they would probably find you amusing to keep around though.

In fact if you offered your world to the Dominion as a fall back position should things go wrong or if they needed a place to rebuild [say needed to have a shipyard facility] it still would be the same as being I guess forced into servitude when you no longer have control of your own space.

Right now I'm trying to think of how you could actually Benifit from being part of the Dominion,everyone's presented excellent points on why it's a BAD IDEA. But in the Gamma Quadrent they don't have that option of refusing, if they do they get wiped out.

Always got to look at the Pros and Cons of being a Member of the Dominion.