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Would you join Section 31 (if you were offered a position)?

Would you join Section (if you were offered a position)?


  • Total voters
    37

Luther Sloan

Captain
Captain
If you lived in the Star Trek Universe and a Section 31 agent approached you for membership, would you accept or decline?

Please vote above and tell us your thoughts below.

Thank you.


Sincerely,

~LS.
 
I would join them, but with the intent to rein in any excessively evil plots. People always talk about how Section 31 is not accountable to anyone, which means to me, that if you're a moral upstanding person and you get an offer to have some control over the organization, some accountability over it, you take the offer.

It is easy to control or change an organization from within then from the outside.

Would I join them if all that met was getting orders to kill so and so, corrupt those files, pilfer that runabout etc? Naw.
 
Actually, there was an article on the British TV programme, Newsnight, which spoke of popular beliefs that men had, popular myths.

One of them was, at the present, that men need to believe that the CIA is 'good'!?

Perhaps the thing to do, is to preserve humans, in the 21stC and 24thC, even if it might mean changes in culture and power structures?

I would love to know whether section31 was involved in the plot to assassinate Gorkon!
 
Certainly! :)

Reasons?

Well...pull out A Few Good Men, and listen to Jack Nicolson's speech near the end....:evil:

Okay. Seriously, now: I would love to actively take part in an agency which does the dirty work, and deals with problems that the rest of the UFP is too naive and "in the open" to notice or deal with.

That being said, I'd see myself as a voice of reason within their ranks, pointing out when a proposed action is neither necessary nor proper--that there is a more effective means that does not require as much dirt.
 
Certainly! :)

Reasons?

Well...pull out A Few Good Men, and listen to Jack Nicolson's speech near the end....:evil:

Okay. Seriously, now: I would love to actively take part in an agency which does the dirty work, and deals with problems that the rest of the UFP is too naive and "in the open" to notice or deal with.
So you would be one of the bad guys. Good to know you admit that. :p

That being said, I'd see myself as a voice of reason within their ranks, pointing out when a proposed action is neither necessary nor proper--that there is a more effective means that does not require as much dirt.
I suspect you won't be. :shifty:
 
If you lived in the Star Trek Universe and a Section 31 agent approached you for membership, would you accept or decline?

Please vote above and tell us your thoughts below.

Thank you.


Sincerely,

~LS.

Only if by doing so, I felt I would have an opportunity to expose them, force its disbanding, and bring its agents to justice.

Certainly! :)

Reasons?

Well...pull out A Few Good Men, and listen to Jack Nicolson's speech near the end....:evil:

You do realize that the whole point of that speech was that Jack Nicholson's character was wrong and deranged for thinking that military service equals carte blanche to do whatever he wants, right? And that that movie ends with Nicholson being arrested and brought to justice for his crimes?
 
Depends. If I was single and had no real attachments, then probably. I've watched too much Alias to know what happens to family if you work for secret organizations.
 
I would never join Section 31, because there's only one way you'll ever leave Section 31, IMO--and it doesn't involve breathing...
:ack:
 
I would never join Section 31, because there's only one way you'll ever leave Section 31, IMO--and it doesn't involve breathing...
:ack:

To be fair, I don't think it's clear that you even get a choice not to join Section 31. Certainly they started handing Bashir assignments for them without ever gaining his actual consent.
 
Well...pull out A Few Good Men, and listen to Jack Nicolson's speech near the end....:evil:
You do realize that the whole point of that speech was that Jack Nicholson's character was wrong and deranged for thinking that military service equals carte blanche to do whatever he wants, right? And that that movie ends with Nicholson being arrested and brought to justice for his crimes?
The point of the speech was that the character of Jessep lived in the harsh world of reality, while the young (and very protected) character of Kaffee lived in a fantasy world. Actual Jessep and Sloan are good counter parts, both men are willing (if necessary) to view the world/universe in black and white, and are willing to kill to defend their repective nations

And while we did see Jessep being arrested, what was Navy JAG really going to charge Jessep with anyway? Accessory to involuntary manslaughter and perjury under oath, the most likely end result would be Col. Jessep being requested to put in for retirement.

It would not be to difficult to hear these words in Sloan's voice speaking to Doctor Bashir

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg?

I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline!

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.

Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
Wait! He didn't care what someone thought they were entitled to? Sounds deranged.
 
Certainly! :)

Reasons?

Well...pull out A Few Good Men, and listen to Jack Nicolson's speech near the end....:evil:

You do realize that the whole point of that speech was that Jack Nicholson's character was wrong and deranged for thinking that military service equals carte blanche to do whatever he wants, right? And that that movie ends with Nicholson being arrested and brought to justice for his crimes?
I don't think he realizes it.
 
Well...pull out A Few Good Men, and listen to Jack Nicolson's speech near the end....:evil:

You do realize that the whole point of that speech was that Jack Nicholson's character was wrong and deranged for thinking that military service equals carte blanche to do whatever he wants, right? And that that movie ends with Nicholson being arrested and brought to justice for his crimes?

The point of the speech was that the character of Jessep lived in the harsh world of reality, while the young (and very protected) character of Kaffee lived in a fantasy world.

No, the point of that scene, and of the entire film/play -- remember, A Few Good Men was written by uber-liberal Aaron Sorkin -- was that Jessep was power-mad and deluded, and believed that his military service gave him carte blanche to violate the law, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and to flout the authority of the military courts. He imagined himself some sort of necessary "rough men" doing "dirty work" that no one else could do to protect civilization, and therefore believed that that gave him license to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. He was, in short, a narcissistic criminal.

And while we did see Jessep being arrested, what was Navy JAG really going to charge Jessep with anyway? Accessory to involuntary manslaughter and perjury under oath,

He could easily be charged with abetting a violation of Article 128 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice:

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who attempts or offers with unlawful force or violence to do bodily harm to another person, whether or not the attempt or offer is consummated, is guilty of assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

(b) Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) commits an assault with a dangerous weapon or other means or force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm; or

(2) commits an assault and intentionally inflicts grievous bodily harm with or without a weapon;

is guilty of aggravated assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

By ordering the code red, he also ordered a violation of Article 13 and Article 15. Article 15, in particular, spells out what kinds of non-judicial punishments an officer may administer, and assault is nowhere on the list.

By helping to cover up the "code red" attack on Santiago, Jessep also violated Article 78, becoming an accessory to assault. The initial order also constitutes a violation of Article 81, conspiracy to violate the Uniform Code. He also violated Article 93 (cruelty or maltreatment of persons under his command), Article 98 (non-compliance with UCMJ's punitive procedures), and Article 107 (false official statements).

The code red also constituted a violation of Article 118, as it states clearly that:

Any person subject to this chapter whom without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being, when he--

(1) has a premeditated design to kill;

(2) intends to kill or inflict great bodily harm;

(3) is engaged in an act which is inherently dangerous to others and evinces a wanton disregard of human life; or

(4) is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of burglary, sodomy, rape, robbery, or aggravated arson;

is guilty of murder, and shall suffer such punishment as a court-martial may direct, except that if found guilty under clause (1) or (4), he shall suffer death or imprisonment for life as a court-martial may direct.

So even though there's no intent to kill, it is still murder under Clause 2 of Article 118. It may also constituted a violation of Article 119 under Section B2.

The code red is also a rather obvious violation of Section 124 (maiming).

And, of course, the code red order constitutes a violation of Article 133 (conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman) and Article 134 (disorder to the prejudice of good order and discipline, conduct bringing discredit upon the armed forces).

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg?

I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline!

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.

Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

Jessep's a lunatic. He's going to claim that the words "honor" and "loyalty" mean anything to him when he ordered the illegal assault of a man under his own command, leading to that man's death? He's a traitor to the men under his command.
 
I was always under the impression that you didn't volunteer for Section 31, that they volunteered you, however if given a choice, i'd say no, why?

Well for starters whats the point in throwing away centuries of progress to go back to archaic "Nationalist Values"

And secondly like another poster said, once you're in theres only one way out...

However as a Starfleet Officer i'm sure you'd be made aware of Section 31 and their notirety before you've even put on the uniform
 
Certainly! :)

Reasons?

Well...pull out A Few Good Men, and listen to Jack Nicolson's speech near the end....:evil:

Okay. Seriously, now: I would love to actively take part in an agency which does the dirty work, and deals with problems that the rest of the UFP is too naive and "in the open" to notice or deal with.
So you would be one of the bad guys. Good to know you admit that. :p

That being said, I'd see myself as a voice of reason within their ranks, pointing out when a proposed action is neither necessary nor proper--that there is a more effective means that does not require as much dirt.
I suspect you won't be. :shifty:

:lol:

Well...let me put it this way:

I understand that many times, we have to get down and dirty.

That does not mean I would condone "genocide"--if there were a more effective means of sabotaging the Dominion, I'd look for it, and demand that alternative.
 
It would depend on the situation. If I'm an engineer in Starfleet at the time of the signing of the Treaty of Algeron and Section 31 wanted me on their team to research and develop cloaking technology, you betcha! If they wanted me to help them assassinate "dangerous" politicians, no way.
 
No. I just don't think I'd be able to turn away from my principles. I believe that in war, there are still rules. S31 thinks the end justifies any means it chooses -- and too often the innocent suffer more than the guilty.
 
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