Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by ConRefit79, May 10, 2013.

  1. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 29, 2012
    I think Nemesis is...fine. I bashed it when all I had seen were snippets and knew the plot. "Clones??? CMON!" But once I saw the whole thing, I think it's 'badness' is overrated.

    Though I would:

    Replace B4 with Lore (requiring massive changes of course, and the end isn't that Data is in Lore, but rather that Lore is shaken enough by Data's death that he rethinks his path)

    Remove the dune buggy scene.

    Add back in a lot of the character stuff that got cut.
  2. wingsabre

    wingsabre Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Apr 22, 2013
    Honestly, the story for Nemesis was just bad. Not Final Frontier bad, but almost as ill contrived as the plot for Final Frontier. It had a poor villain, with attempts at fan service that ended up thrown at the cutting room floor. It would have been better if somehow Lore was revived and we dealt with a crystal entity plot, or if they had Sela be the main villain. The dune buggy scene was excessive and not necessary. If they were to break up the movie into television episodes, then it would make sense to include the scene. However, since it's a movie, it does very little to advance the plot, other than to open up the possibility of bringing back Data in the form of B4.
  3. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 5, 2013
    I agree Shinzon being Picard's Clone was the weak link of the film. Really, I don't think the film as a whole, was a bad one.

    But I had always been of the opinion that where was Sela in all this? Personally, Sela being Picard's "Nemesis" makes a lot more sense than a clone of Picard wanting to kill him.

    So, I think if they had substituted Shinzon for Sela, it might have been a better plot. However, the actress that played Sela, Denise Crosby, couldn't have hoped to be anywhere near as menacing as Tom Hardy was.
  4. M-Red

    M-Red Commander Red Shirt

    May 26, 2009
    With NEM, the broad consensus seems to be a total re-write would have been necessary to save it.

    The entire plot and underlying thematic focus on the nature/nurture debate were completely out of place for TNG's last adventure.

    -Shinzon as a Romulan Julius Caesar, indifferent to a small fish like Picard.

    -No B4
    -No Remans

    -Riker and Troi already married, already in command of the Titan (off-screen character growth and narrative development worked just fine in the TOS films).
    -No Earth destroying weapon

    -No Sela (!)

    -Allow Worf to be separated from the main plot and then worked into the main events in a believable way rather than just lazily throwing him back on the Ent bridge.

    -Add Spock and make it a conclusion to the Unification storyline. Give it some scope.

    NEM should have been TNG's capstone epic story. All the elements were there. In retrospect, the seeds of NEM's demise were probably planted when they greenlit INS. That meandering film added precious little to the TNG story and forced the final film to cover more ground than should have been expected. And then it went downhill from there.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013