Would Nemesis Have Fared Better?

[BillJ]

I guess I'm one of the few that thought Tom Hardy did a decent job with the material he had.

Denise Crosby should've been in Nemesis but in a non-speaking role. Same haircut as Yar, in security yellow and wearing lieutenants pips. As Sela? It would have made a bad movie even more laughable.

 

[JarodRussell]

They should have used Patrick Stewart to play Shinzon for sure. The guy looks pretty much like he did even back in the 1970s (IE other than the fake hair, he looks the same as when he was in I, Claudius, to me). For Nemesis, they could have CGI-smoothed his face some in the beginning of the movie, and aged him up as he got sicker.

I liked the idea of a battle-hardened, adult Patrick Stewart Shinzon with a big fat scar over his entire head.

 

[austen_pierce]

They should have used Patrick Stewart to play Shinzon for sure. The guy looks pretty much like he did even back in the 1970s (IE other than the fake hair, he looks the same as when he was in I, Claudius, to me). For Nemesis, they could have CGI-smoothed his face some in the beginning of the movie, and aged him up as he got sicker.

I liked the idea of a battle-hardened, adult Patrick Stewart Shinzon with a big fat scar over his entire head.

According to Data's report, Shinzon fought in the Dominion War. Maybe have Shinzon masked to hide his true identity during those events with a dramatic reveal scene in Nemesis.

 

[sonak]

I guess I'm one of the few that thought Tom Hardy did a decent job with the material he had.

Denise Crosby should've been in Nemesis but in a non-speaking role. Same haircut as Yar, in security yellow and wearing lieutenants pips. As Sela? It would have made a bad movie even more laughable.

I agree with you, I don't think Tom Hardy's performance was an issue. And I don't think that him not really looking like Picard was either.

For me the bigger concern was that the CHARACTER of Shinzon was nothing like Picard. He's more like "random psycho of the week" than a supposed "dark mirror" of Picard, so the concept doesn't work for me.

 

[jpv2000]

I actually loved Nemesis. It is my favorite TNG movie.

Probably because of the simple reason of finally letting Riker and Troi marry and making Riker a Captain. Both of which I had wanted for years.

I also love the Titan series which Nemesis gave birth to so to speak. Nemesis basically made all my hopes for TNG trek come true.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I guess I'm one of the few that thought Tom Hardy did a decent job with the material he had.

Denise Crosby should've been in Nemesis but in a non-speaking role. Same haircut as Yar, in security yellow and wearing lieutenants pips. As Sela? It would have made a bad movie even more laughable.

Hardy was great.

But an actor's performance is mutually exclusive to the "legitimacy"(?) of his role.

 

[lurok]

Yes, in a list of wrongs, Hardy's acting chops and performance wasn't one of them.

 

[MacLeod]

Agreed, Hardy was acting was one of the better things about NEM.

 

[TheSubCommander]

I guess I'm one of the few that thought Tom Hardy did a decent job with the material he had.

Denise Crosby should've been in Nemesis but in a non-speaking role. Same haircut as Yar, in security yellow and wearing lieutenants pips. As Sela? It would have made a bad movie even more laughable.

I agree with you, I don't think Tom Hardy's performance was an issue. And I don't think that him not really looking like Picard was either.

For me the bigger concern was that the CHARACTER of Shinzon was nothing like Picard. He's more like "random psycho of the week" than a supposed "dark mirror" of Picard, so the concept doesn't work for me.

I also agree. Tom Hardy is a fine actor and he did a decent job as Shinzon. I think had instead of being a Clone of Picard that he was a Romulan....OR even the brother of Sela, he would have been better suited for the film. Who else but Sela has a grudge against Picard, and with Shinzon imagined as her brother instead of a Clone of Picard, would have an equal grudge.

But if they were insistent on having a clone of Picard, then I say there is only on Patrick Stewart! I definitely like the idea of him playing an evil version of Picard.

They should have used Patrick Stewart to play Shinzon for sure. The guy looks pretty much like he did even back in the 1970s (IE other than the fake hair, he looks the same as when he was in I, Claudius, to me). For Nemesis, they could have CGI-smoothed his face some in the beginning of the movie, and aged him up as he got sicker.

I liked the idea of a battle-hardened, adult Patrick Stewart Shinzon with a big fat scar over his entire head.

+100000!
OMG! YES!

 

[Melakon]

I simply didn't like the story. Picard has a clone. I'd been watching variations of that for 40 years, ever since Twilight Zone's "In His Image", though it had androids. Data has another twin! Just like Lore! Yawn. Then there were the Remans, whom we'd never heard of before, but were apparently a significant underclass in Romulan society.

Tom Hardy did well with what he had to work with.

 

[SeerSGB]

You could do the same story, minus the clone. Just have Shinzon be a Romulan equivalent of Picard. One of the Romulans best and brightest, a reasonable man, a diplomat that's just out to take care of his people. But still Romulan at his core. A Romulan out to protect the Empire, whose only loyalty is the Empire, not who sits on the throne.

Hardy was excellent in the movie. But he was handicapped with a shite script and production values.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Hardy was excellent in the movie. But he was handicapped with a shite script and production values.

And a ridiculous outfit.

I agree, thought, that he should have been a strait-up Rommie.

Shinzon as a Remain refugee turned hard-liner looking to usurp power uses saber rattling with the Fed to stir support for is coup. Something a long the lines of the African dictators. Or hell, just do an Iraq parable.

 

[SeerSGB]

Ugh, the Remans: another strike on the movie. We didn't need Nosferatu Remans. Just have them be regular Romulans with some form of illness/genetic problem and/or Romulan/X Alien Race hybrids. The scum so low (to the "real" Romulans) that they're not good enough to mingle with even the lowest or the pure blood Romulans; that's why they make great cannon fodder, the Romulans are just throwing out the garbage. The Nosferatu In Space look just killed the Remans for me from minute one.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Bah. The Remans are one of the best alien designs modern Trek ever did.

 

[SeerSGB]

Bah. The Remans are one of the best alien designs modern Trek ever did.

I found them to be comical and overly obvious that they were meant to be the bad guy aliens for the movie. Barely better than a Halloween mask and a oozing "ooooh, we're suppose to be scary, look at how evil we are, oooh".

 

[austen_pierce]

Ugh, the Remans: another strike on the movie. We didn't need Nosferatu Remans. Just have them be regular Romulans with some form of illness/genetic problem and/or Romulan/X Alien Race hybrids. The scum so low (to the "real" Romulans) that they're not good enough to mingle with even the lowest or the pure blood Romulans; that's why they make great cannon fodder, the Romulans are just throwing out the garbage. The Nosferatu In Space look just killed the Remans for me from minute one.

I'd have been happier with the Remans if 1) they hadn't come out of NOWHERE and 2) they hadn't taken center stage, making Romulans seem like an endangered species.

 

[SeerSGB]

Ugh, the Remans: another strike on the movie. We didn't need Nosferatu Remans. Just have them be regular Romulans with some form of illness/genetic problem and/or Romulan/X Alien Race hybrids. The scum so low (to the "real" Romulans) that they're not good enough to mingle with even the lowest or the pure blood Romulans; that's why they make great cannon fodder, the Romulans are just throwing out the garbage. The Nosferatu In Space look just killed the Remans for me from minute one.

I'd have been happier with the Remans if 1) they hadn't come out of NOWHERE and 2) they hadn't taken center stage, making Romulans seem like an endangered species.

A symptom of the one of the big issues of the movie--for me: Why do I care? The script doesn't give me any reason at all to give a damn about Shinzon or the Remans or the Romulans--for that matter.

 

[Galileo7]

I didn't hate Nemesis, but I've always thought it would have been so much better and more dramatic (and more believable) if Patrick Stewart played Shinzon. Was that ever considered?

Agree.

 

[CaptainDave1701]

I have always thought that the next gen films for the most part were not that good. This is of course my opinion but I felt that with the exception of First Contact that they lacked something and Nemesis was just bad.

 

[austen_pierce]

I have always thought that the next gen films for the most part were not that good. This is of course my opinion but I felt that with the exception of First Contact that they lacked something and Nemesis was just bad.

Completely agree. I've been watching all of the movies. I stopped at TUC... just haven't worked up the courage to venture into the disappointing TNG era again.