Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

[mos6507]

My opinion is that technology is turning everybody's life into a "show". That's what reality TV is all about, or pointing the webcam at yourself and video blogging, but there's also a LOT of indie producers out there, and it seems like everyone and his brother is slapping on a uniform and getting in front of a greenscreen and doing their OWN Trek show. So why do we have to be beholden to CBS/Paramount when we can just sift through everyone's amateur productions to find the good stuff?

You want to see more Trek? Make your own! That's what I'm doing, and I'm willing to share the tools and assets to anyone else who wants them. And I don't have to wring my hands over how the franchise is being bastardized by Rick Berman or JJ Abrams, because I get to do it just my way. You can't beat that.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

t seems like everyone and his brother is slapping on a uniform and getting in front of a greenscreen and doing their OWN Trek show. So why do we have to be beholden to CBS/Paramount when we can just sift through everyone's amateur productions to find the good stuff?

You want to see more Trek? Make your own! That's what I'm doing,

mos6507 being that you are an ensign on TrekBBS and have only made 10 posts in 1 year perhaps you should consider the forum you are posting in. Only the Fan Productions forum is for making your own Trek. This forum discusses the serious issues for canon in the next TV series or feature film. This thread in particular deals with a nonlinear TV channel or subscription-based downloads of the next canon Trek TV series.

we can just sift through everyone's amateur productions to find the good stuff?

You said it yourself amateur productions.
Only the people on the Fan Productions forum want to watch those. All of the other forums deal with canon and high production values that are associated with Star Trek since STI:TMP. If you really don't wish to answer the questions in the original post #1 or add to the canon discussion please do not post in this subforum.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

5 years from now (2017)

The Next Web did an article on TV in 5 years.

he believes that “It’s still going to be storytelling… Television’s still going to look a lot like television five years from now.

“What do you care that your content’s coming from IP versus connecting it to a coaxial cable or having free-to-air satellite? That’s the beauty of this industry, that you don’t have to completely blow it up for it to be something new.”

Despite huge shifts, “TV’s still going to look a lot like TV five years from now”: Ooyala’s Bismarck Lepe

a great article title but not much substance. This will tell us that if a new Trek series is on in the next 5 years most likely it will be on cable or broadcast TV.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Nielsens are only one factor in TV right now. HBO and Showtime don't care about Nielsens because they have no advertisers to please. They do care about ratings as an indicator that a show can attract and retain subscribers and they care a lot more about a show's "buzz" (among critics and the general public) than broadcast networks do.

The changes to TV will be this:

A lot of what we know as "TV" won't change at all, or will change incrementally.

The new kids (Google, YouTube, Yahoo, Netflix, et al) will be different from traditional TV in being (generally) cheaper, nichier, far more abundant, and with more of an interactive element, ranging from minor (comments) to major (scripted dramas that merge with games at the extreme end of the spectrum.)

This will result in a huge range in quality, subject matter and form to sort through, so success depends heavily on people having access to powerful search tools.

 

[LtChange]

Nielsens are only one factor in TV right now. HBO and Showtime don't care about Nielsens because they have no advertisers to please. They do care about ratings as an indicator that a show can attract and retain subscribers and they care a lot more about a show's "buzz" (among critics and the general public) than broadcast networks do.

The changes to TV will be this:

A lot of what we know as "TV" won't change at all, or will change incrementally.

The new kids (Google, YouTube, Yahoo, Netflix, et al) will be different from traditional TV in being (generally) cheaper, nichier, far more abundant, and with more of an interactive element, ranging from minor (comments) to major (scripted dramas that merge with games at the extreme end of the spectrum.)

This will result in a huge range in quality, subject matter and form to sort through, so success depends heavily on people having access to powerful search tools.

My biggest fears about the new kids is the fact that they region lock almost everything that is interesting. Take exemple the BSG webisodes, or SG:U Kino episodes: they are all region locked without European distribution. Now, I'm in a more stupid position, because I'm from Romania so: no iTunes TV Shows for me at all, no Netflix at all, no YouTube in some exclusive YouTube distribution channels so in the case that a new Trek series is coming out in new media, I have to wait for a potential blu-ray release, so I can order that from the states and hoping to be region free (The Ark of Truth comes in my mind" I waited for that one like hell, but guess what: there is no European blu-ray distribution, and the US version is Region locked, so no HD version of The Ark of Truth for me)... So I'm mixed with the whole new media thingy until I can see an effort to make global release possible somehow. i get it that licensing old stuff is hard, because of the distribution agreements of the past, but they should really focus in future distribution agreements that Internet isn't made up from the US and 15 EU countries, because you got 196 in the world (something that iTunes, Xbox marketplace, Netflix, Sony PSN and a lot of others don't get: there is money in the rest of the world too not just in the US, Japan, canada and about 15 EU countries ... ). I just hate that I have to make stupid cheats to get to my digital content legally and they say that piracy is high, but they are the ones that make piracy possible. They want to push ACTA through the European Parliament so that somebody downloads a movie to be considered a thief and eligible to punishment without state borders, but they don't want to offer me the legal possibility to download in the first place for some of the content legally by IP blocking ...

 

[Temis the Vorta]

My biggest fears about the new kids is the fact that they region lock almost everything that is interesting.

I neglected to mention the other vital element in the equation, namely that global distribution must be streamlined to make this all work financially. Niche audiences mean that big budgets are impossible, and we're going to be left with reality TV crap and amusing cat antics - unless you're multiplying those audiences by the size of the global audience, without the cost burden of all the current intermediaries in TV and DVD distribution.

In other words, a new big source of money has to be injected into the system, and greater efficiency in global distribution is the only place I can envision it coming from. So you have nothing to fear - if the industry is stupid enough to continue with the concept of locking out this or that region, that's a sign that they're locked into old modes of thinking and they're not going to make any of this work.

One way we can tell if someone is breaking from the pack and thinking differently and smartly about all this: when they stop bitching about piracy and start to use the huge audiences created by piracy as a benefit. A ready-made audience is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Netflix (again)

There is an article up at comicbookresources.com.
Why Isn’t Netflix Working On A New Star Trek Already?
Saturday, August 25th, 2012

in it this quote is mentioned about Netflix & Trek series:

since the shows were added last year; CBS boss Les Moonves even called out the franchise as one that worked “best” for CBS on the service earlier this month, so there’s definitely an audience for it.

I feel this should be mentioned in this thread as Hulu & Netflix allow the possibility of not debuting in America on cable TV or network TV.
wow with more questions than answers I really like the thoughts this brings up!

For the producers of a new Trek, Netflix allows all manner of flexibility that network – or even cable! – wouldn’t, in terms of running time, allowable content or even story structure. If all episodes of a season were made available simultaneously (following the Lilyhammer model), would that allow for more complex, season-long arcs and storytelling? What happens to the narrative when writers aren’t restricted to creating faux cliffhangers every ten minutes to lead into ad breaks? What if storylines break off into individual episodes, allowing audiences to follow their favorite characters/threads and then come back to follow a different movement afterwards?
(Another thought: What if new content was made available in the lead-up to a third movie, with storylines acting as a prologue into it? Or, spinning out of it, afterwards?)

Especially the running time. Sadly most cable TV and even network dramas are going with 41:30 and 42 minute running times for 1 hour length shows! Can we see Trek back up to 45-50 minutes per episode to allow breathing room for the story? I think the foreign distribution requirements will determine actual runtime of the next series.

 

[Mars]

I can't imagine a Star Trek show not debutting on a broadcast channel or the movie theater, I include the Sci Fi channel as a broadcast channel, that is any channel with commercials that broadcast its shows according to a set schedule, though I don't see why it couldn't be sold over the internet as well for downloads, why not do both? I get tired of seeing vampires and ghosts on the science fiction channel, it would be nice if we get something like a new Star Trek series there.

 

[AviTrek]

Re: Netflix (again)

There is an article up at comicbookresources.com.
Why Isn’t Netflix Working On A New Star Trek Already?
Saturday, August 25th, 2012

in it this quote is mentioned about Netflix & Trek series:

since the shows were added last year; CBS boss Les Moonves even called out the franchise as one that worked “best” for CBS on the service earlier this month, so there’s definitely an audience for it.

I feel this should be mentioned in this thread as Hulu & Netflix allow the possibility of not debuting in America on cable TV or network TV.
wow with more questions than answers I really like the thoughts this brings up!

For the producers of a new Trek, Netflix allows all manner of flexibility that network – or even cable! – wouldn’t, in terms of running time, allowable content or even story structure. If all episodes of a season were made available simultaneously (following the Lilyhammer model), would that allow for more complex, season-long arcs and storytelling? What happens to the narrative when writers aren’t restricted to creating faux cliffhangers every ten minutes to lead into ad breaks? What if storylines break off into individual episodes, allowing audiences to follow their favorite characters/threads and then come back to follow a different movement afterwards?
(Another thought: What if new content was made available in the lead-up to a third movie, with storylines acting as a prologue into it? Or, spinning out of it, afterwards?)

Especially the running time. Sadly most cable TV and even network dramas are going with 41:30 and 42 minute running times for 1 hour length shows! Can we see Trek back up to 45-50 minutes per episode to allow breathing room for the story? I think the foreign distribution requirements will determine actual runtime of the next series.

Running time also determines cost. The longer an episode runs, the more expensive it is to produce. Since star trek on Netflix will be squeezed by budgets already, don't expect longer episodes that will make the show even more expensive.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Yeah I've noticed that Moonves seems to be very well inclined towards Netflix where other channels regard it as Satan. And of all the possibilities kicked around, it makes the most sense for a new Star Trek series to be launched as a joint CBS-Netflix project. There may be hope yet!

As for running time, that becomes moot for a Netflix produced series. You could just watch as many episodes as you like at one time, or a partial episode, and have the running time be whatever suits you.

How long it takes to tell a story is a creative decision. It could be one hour or twenty hours. That's a producer side question. For the consumer, its up to us how much of the whole story to watch at an given time. Its become standard for cable shows to be entirely serialized, and we can watch one episode at a time or just save up a whole season for a marathon.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Yeah I've noticed that Moonves seems to be very well inclined towards Netflix where other channels regard it as Satan. And of all the possibilities kicked around, it makes the most sense for a new Star Trek series to be launched as a joint CBS-Netflix project. There may be hope yet!

This week it was announced that CBS has made a deal with Hulu for

more than 2,600 episodes from CBS library series

classics such as “Star Trek,”

to be available on Hulu Plus only in January 2013.
So that is the first step to a relationship with CBS. I don't think Hulu Plus would necessarily be the right place for a new Star Trek series to debut but you never know if they decide not to go with a regular linear TV channel.
Hulu Plus to stream and iTunes (for download to own) is a possibility if they decide to go with this route.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

All the Star Trek series are alrady available on Netflix. I guess it would make sense to launch a series everywhere at once - Netflix, Hulu, iTunes, maybe even try it on CBS as well, to catch the folks who are scared of all that newfangled streaming stuff! A series only on CBS couldn't survive but packaged with other outlets, maybe.

I'm sure Netflix or Hulu would prefer an exclusive but CBS would have all the clout, since they own the big brand name that will drive viewers to either site.

 

[marksound]

No.

I don't have time for all the stuff I want to watch that I already pay for on cable.

 

[Sindatur]

All the Star Trek series are alrady available on Netflix. I guess it would make sense to launch a series everywhere at once - Netflix, Hulu, iTunes, maybe even try it on CBS as well, to catch the folks who are scared of all that newfangled streaming stuff! A series only on CBS couldn't survive but packaged with other outlets, maybe.

I'm sure Netflix or Hulu would prefer an exclusive but CBS would have all the clout, since they own the big brand name that will drive viewers to either site.

Jeffriestubes8 says "Exclusive to Hulu"? So, that means Netflix will be losing Star Trek back catalog.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The press release says it's non-exclusive:

CBS Corporation (NYSE: CBS.A and CBS) and Hulu announced today a non-exclusive, multi-year licensing agreement to stream programs from CBS's rich television library on the Hulu Plus subscription service.

 

[Sindatur]

The press release says it's non-exclusive:

CBS Corporation (NYSE: CBS.A and CBS) and Hulu announced today a non-exclusive, multi-year licensing agreement to stream programs from CBS's rich television library on the Hulu Plus subscription service.

Ah, that makes a difference then

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Jeffriestubes8 says "Exclusive to Hulu"? So, that means Netflix will be losing Star Trek back catalog.

What I said was meant to understand as Trek would not be available just on the Hulu free website but only available for paid subscribers to Hulu Plus.
A subscription to Hulu Plus still will have commercials to partially pay for the programming.
Netflix has all Trek yes but some people only wish to pay for Hulu Plus in this economy and not both.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Yeah I pay for Netflix and not Hulu Plus (seriously, it's either subscription or ads but I'm not putting up with both!)

But CBS has the content and the streaming services are not in any position to demand exclusives. The smart thing for CBS to do is to put Star Trek everywhere and anywhere.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

streaming only? or next Trek series on linear TV?

With Netflix's House of Cards being released today there are some articles talking about the new business model and how it affects the creative side of storytelling. How would this apply to Star Trek if it were not on a linear TV channel?

But when streaming is available anywhere across the globe, there’s not even a reason to stick the half hour or hour-long models. You can have an episode that’s 20 minutes, an episode that’s 90 minutes.

I think 42-55 minutes would be a sliding area for each episode.

Beyond what’s on screen, there are significant new TV business practices looming with House of Cards, first and foremost being Netflix’s hands-off approach. Netflix isn't producing the show; it's simply operating as the company licensed exclusively for its service. So Willimon and the creative team had “virtual complete control and freedom.” Unlike nearly all new scripted television, they weren’t even getting formal notes from their ‘network’ in this instance.

Imagine VOY & ENT without UPN's executives.

No need for cliff hanger endings and “next week on” montages—ultimately House of Cards’ 13-episode first season will be available all at once.

All at once although 13 episodes and not 26.
It still allows for fans to watch as much as they want in a sitting. Would Trek fans pay for 13 episodes on a subscription basis like the Howard Stern Show on Sirius/XM Satellite radio even though they already pay for the Sirius radio service itself?

“On a lot of other shows, you have to play the ratings game. Even great shows in the first half of their first seasons may implement these artificial cliffhangers to keep people coming back because they’re fighting for their survival,” Willimon says.

Unnecessary and the question is what about foreign TV distribution? Would it still include these cliffhangers during the acts then?

That new structure carries with it narrative implications. The pacing of the two episodes Ars previewed is different from what we’ve been conditioned to accept with traditional cable drama. There’s no need to pad an individual episode with more or less content due to network run times and number of ads sold. Willimon says rather than thinking of individual episodes, the creative team approached it all as a “13 hour movie,” and that comes across in the first two hours.

This sounds like it would still allow character development rather than just action pieces each episode with character development "padding".

what you can and can’t do on American TV tends to be a bit more limited (thanks FCC!). On Netflix, though? It’s a new frontier with more potential for exploration.

Highly doubtful a Trek TV series would go beyond TV-14 for mature audiences.
SOURCE
http://arstechnica.com/business/201...3-hour-movie-defining-the-netflix-experience/

The idea that CBS could make this an exclusive with their own unannounced streaming service for CBS-owned properties like their Nickelodeon is launching a Nick app for mobile devices. Technically they could launch a Star Trek app for a new Trek TV series streaming and they would control the advertising solely within it or they could license it exclusively via Hulu Plus.

 

[Melakon]

I wouldn't be watching a Star Trek only available by paid subscription or cable or Netflix because I simply can't afford it on a fixed income. If it were later available on dvd I would consider it, as I like having a physical library. I've not seen the new BSG or Game of Thrones either, but I was impressed with Peter Dinklage's talent when I saw The Station Agent on basic Hulu.