Would ENT lasted longer if....?

[Neutral Zone]

The idea of a prequel was in itself a good idea and I think most Trek would've been looking forward to it when they found out that there was a series of this kind being made. I know I looked forward to, I now like it, but at the time of veiwing the first time around was disappointed.

For me there was far too much time spent on 'temporal' matters and races that never came up in other Trek series. Or in the case of the Ferengi, they are appeared in Ent and yet in TNG they are a new species to the crew of the Enterprise and little is known about out short big eared friends.

So, would the series have lasted longer if they kept to the set format of TOS and TNG? Exploring new worlds etc but coming up with more of the races and problems we go in the other series. And perhaps a more Trek type of music may have helped.

 

[Methos]

i think the focus on temporal matters didn't help the show at all... i could have personally done without that storyline...

overall, i quite enjoyed the Xindi storyline and the attack on earth... i thought it was quite well written... but i do think they should have had more stand alone stories focusing on exploration and things like that... the whole long arc thing is good in premise, but gets a bit dry if its all they focus on

M

 

[ReedEnterprise]

Though I do like Star Wars, that franchise did their prequel before Star Trek did. In my opinion, Trek is far better of a franchise by leaps and bounds. And I was NOT crazy about Trek doing what SW did.

Once I got over that, I enjoyed ENT a lot. I loved the characters, and stories, loved the development of the characters. Even the flaws in them. It is my favorite Trek and I so wish it went another 2 or 3 seasons. Imagine Shran as a regular...oh what could have been!

 

[Shanndee]

The idea of a prequel was in itself a good idea and I think most Trek would've been looking forward to it when they found out that there was a series of this kind being made. I know I looked forward to, I now like it, but at the time of veiwing the first time around was disappointed.

i think the focus on temporal matters didn't help the show at all... i could have personally done without that storyline...

M

Although I agree with both of these statements, I think that allowing a bit of time to pass before embarking on a new series would have helped it last longer.

I know that I thought the premise was good at the time, but when I started watching I realized that I was suffering from Trek fatigue. No matter how much I wanted to watch/like it, I felt that I was stretched too thin with all the Trek I had been watching.

I am doing a proper re-watch now, and I'm really kicking myself for not keeping up with it when it really mattered ratings wise.

 

[Sindatur]

I was annoyed by the Suliban and the Temporal Cold War, too on initial run, but rewatching it really appreciated it. I'm not sure a rest would've helped, I think it just would've shortened the episodes we did get. Times, they were a changing, and ratings they been a falling since DS9 premiered. Allowing for "Absence makes the Heart Grow Fonder" to set in, would've made it harder to compete for enough ratings to warrant it's budget since syndication changed at about that time. Definitely, I would've loved to see those final 3 Seasons, especially with Shran as a regular, and seeing the Romulan War heat up <SIGH> I'm just afraid the Television Ratings available Vs. Needed for ENT weren't any better a year or two down the line, they no longer had that "In House" sale to balance out costs

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm in the minority here - I really enjoyed the TCW episodes and the idea of a massive time war across eras and timelines. I just wish they'd gone into it with a proper battle plan, not made up inconsistant stuff as they went along (Daniels hints Earth no longer exists in the 31st century... later Earth is his HQ. Taking Archer to the future destroys time in "Shockwave", but has no effect in "Azati Prime" or "Zero Hour" etc)

 

[Rarewolf]

Though I do like Star Wars, that franchise did their prequel before Star Trek did. In my opinion, Trek is far better of a franchise by leaps and bounds. And I was NOT crazy about Trek doing what SW did.

Star Wars is in a far better position 7 years after Sith, than is was 7 years after Jedi, it has fans not even born when Sith was released.

Different (younger) audience though. People spend a lot on that age range!

 

[47]

1. It would have lasted longer if it had been better. Manny Coto at the helm from the start would have been a humongous plus.

2. The temporal war thingy never went anywhere, neither did the prophet-like sphere builders. We never found out who was Future Guy, and don't tell me that people who can manipulate timelines can be defeated so easily. Ask the Wormhole Prophets if you wish, they were NEVER defeated (although the Pah-Wraiths gave them a good fight)

3. The Suliban and the Xindi were NEVER mentioned in TOS, TNG, DS9 or VOY. Stupid! ENT should have used as main villains species already established, and those two could have been episodic, minor adversaries. BUT B&B had no hesitation introducing the Borg and the Ferengi, which Kirk and company never even mention once in three seasons and Picard and company seem very surprised to meet (Borg) and see what they look like (Ferengi).

For all those reasons and so many more, I try to forget ENT. It's made easier by the fact that it's not even on TV anymore, not on my cable company anyway... (Neither is DS9 by the way, but I'll get the DVDs one way or another...)

 

[Nerys Myk]

The idea of a prequel was in itself a good idea and I think most Trek would've been looking forward to it when they found out that there was a series of this kind being made. I know I looked forward to, I now like it, but at the time of veiwing the first time around was disappointed.

For me there was far too much time spent on 'temporal' matters and races that never came up in other Trek series. Or in the case of the Ferengi, they are appeared in Ent and yet in TNG they are a new species to the crew of the Enterprise and little is known about out short big eared friends.

So, would the series have lasted longer if they kept to the set format of TOS and TNG? Exploring new worlds etc but coming up with more of the races and problems we go in the other series. And perhaps a more Trek type of music may have helped.

It would have lasted longer if more people had watched.

The Ferengi weren't a "new" species in TNG, just a mysterious one. Picard mentions them in "Encounter at Farpoint" and Riker knows quite a bit about them in "The Last Outpost". Their ship is identified with ease as belonging to the Ferengi. Picard of course met them years prior in "The Battle". Calling them new would be a stretch.

In Enterprise we met several species from previous shows: Vulcans, Coridians, Andorians and Tellerites, to name a few. Other species from previous shows were also mentioned. They was a mix of old and new.

 

[Sindatur]

1. It would have lasted longer if it had been better. Manny Coto at the helm from the start would have been a humongous plus.

2. The temporal war thingy never went anywhere, neither did the prophet-like sphere builders. We never found out who was Future Guy, and don't tell me that people who can manipulate timelines can be defeated so easily. Ask the Wormhole Prophets if you wish, they were NEVER defeated (although the Pah-Wraiths gave them a good fight)

3. The Suliban and the Xindi were NEVER mentioned in TOS, TNG, DS9 or VOY. Stupid! ENT should have used as main villains species already established, and those two could have been episodic, minor adversaries. BUT B&B had no hesitation introducing the Borg and the Ferengi, which Kirk and company never even mention once in three seasons and Picard and company seem very surprised to meet (Borg) and see what they look like (Ferengi).

For all those reasons and so many more, I try to forget ENT. It's made easier by the fact that it's not even on TV anymore, not on my cable company anyway... (Neither is DS9 by the way, but I'll get the DVDs one way or another...)

The Borg and the Ferengi being Continuity errors is a common complaint, but, not a legitimate one.

Ferengi:
1. Archer was told the name of the Ferengi, but, no one knew anything about them, including the Vulcans, they didn't knwo what the Ferengi looked like.
2. Later on, the NX-01 was pirated by a mysterious race, whose name was never known, that the audience just happens to know from the future are the Ferengi.
3. Neither Archer, nor anyone else, had any reason to connect the name "Ferengi" he heard once with the folks who pirated the NX-01

The Borg were from First Contact Time travel, and I don't believe their name was ever mentioned. How can there be a record of a previous encounter with the Borg, if they weren't known to be Borg? I've gotta imagine, that as well as all the information and knowledge they did gain in their exploration, that there were at least as many mysteries they encountered, but, never put all the pieces together

Also, some complain about the Romulans as well, but, ENT never allowed the Humans to actually see what a Romulan looks like, only the audience got to see that.

The Sphere builders were totally dealt with. They spent hundreds, if not thousands of years manipulating folks in our universe to build the Sphere Network, to make it compatible to their bodies. The Sphere Network was destroyed, and folks in the Expanse were now wise to their ways

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Ask the Wormhole Prophets if you wish, they were NEVER defeated (although the Pah-Wraiths gave them a good fight)

Nobody tried to defeat the Prophets (except the Pah-Wraiths), so I don't think that's a fair comparison.

The TCW in itself wasn't a bad idea, but it probably could have been handled better. Perhaps just coming out and openly saying that all the mucking about in history was messing up the timeline (as opposed to Daniels' vague hints about vaguely bad stuff.)

 

[horatio83]

For me there was far too much time spent on 'temporal' matters and races that never came up in other Trek series. Or in the case of the Ferengi, they are appeared in Ent and yet in TNG they are a new species to the crew of the Enterprise and little is known about out short big eared friends.

Aha, so you hate the appearance of new species as well as old species. Sounds like you would prefer a "homo sapiens club only".

So, would the series have lasted longer if they kept to the set format of TOS and TNG? Exploring new worlds etc but coming up with more of the races and problems we go in the other series.

Ehm, that's what ENT did. They explored new worlds, met new folks and some of them appeared again and again like the Andorians or Vulcans. ENT is basically TOS done right. TOS sketched out the Vulcans and once put a blue mask on a guy, ENT drew the full picture.

 

[BruntFCA]

I think ENT would have lasted longer if UPN had just let the people who had been making Trek for the last 15 years do what they do.

I really don't get the whole "we never heard about them before!!!!" argument that tends to pop up on here from time to time when talking about some of the new species ENT introduced, the universe is fucking huge so why would we have heard about every species ever? It usually just tends to come off as haters thinking up new ways to crap on a show they already don't like. I actually really like that ENT gave us some cool new species as well as fleshed out some old species like the Andorians.

Lastly I tend to have different opinions on the Ferengi and Borg appearances on ENT. I think having the Ferengi appear was just stupid and that's coming from probably one of the biggest Ferengi fans on this board. Regeneration however was awesome and IMO a much better Borg episode then any episode VOY did besides maybe Scorpion pt 1 and definitely better then I,borg and Decent from TNG. Also I think the FC tie-in was very clever and not only as a way of getting the Borg on ENT but actually adding something to the episode.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Considering the galaxy contains about 100 billion stars, and current estimates indicate 10 billion Earth-type planets, I have no problem with Enterprise introducting races never seen in TOS or TNG.

Remember also that the Suliban nor the Xindi were huge empires like the Klingons and Romulans. The Suliban Cabal were a terrorist faction of a fairly primative people, and the Xindi didn't even have a homeworld.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

UPN morphing into the CW would have killed it in any case. What ENT was about, and whether it was "good" wasn't really the issue. It got caught in a bad transition in the TV business from an environment where space opera can survive on broadcast to one where it can only survive on cable (and even there, it's not easy).

I would have loved to have seen a better attempt at the Birth of the Federation concept, but the show would have died about the same time anyway. The CW wouldn't have been interested in that topic, or any space opera, even if the ratings had been great - they were interested in a young female audience, period, and that means sci fi is out.

The only thing that would have changed is, I would have had a lot more regret over the cancellation, vs "oh well, time for a change in the creative staff anyway."

Ironically, the CW seems to be finally taking steps to actively appeal to a male audience with the coming fall season. Who knows, maybe they'll warm up to Star Trek someday. Not sure if that's a good thing...

I really don't get the whole "we never heard about them before!!!!" argument that tends to pop up on here from time to time when talking about some of the new species ENT introduced, the universe is fucking huge so why would we have heard about every species ever?

Starfleet should have heard of them, since their lives depend on it. Any time they encounter any species, every scrap of information on them should go into Starfleet Google, and that includes images. If they're stupid enough not to have video cameras in every public area of the spaceship, then the crew can do police artist sketches of what they look like. Then face recognition could recognize the aliens later (the Ferengi are pretty distinctive and we should assume Starfleet facial recognition tech is pretty damn good).

Obviously, this system would be hysterically low-tech compared with what they should be capable of. They should be able to take DNA samples of skin flakes in the air and do instant DNA analysis or something along those lines. They can travel faster than the speed of light, but they can't use information technology sensibly? Are they explorers or tourists?

But that's way off topic, because the stupidity of how Starfleet's "exploration" is depicted definitely isn't what killed the show. Nobody really cares about that stuff but us.

 

[horatio83]

Face recognition technique? This is Trek, not some Orwellian nightmare.

 

[MacLeod]

I would have loved to have seen a better attempt at the Birth of the Federation concept, but the show would have died about the same time anyway. The CW wouldn't have been interested in that topic, or any space opera, even if the ratings had been great - they were interested in a young female audience, period, and that means sci fi is out.

I thing the female audiance for Sci-Fi is larger than some people think it is. At conventions for example, females can out number males by a fair amount.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Starfleet should have heard of them, since their lives depend on it. Any time they encounter any species, every scrap of information on them should go into Starfleet Google, and that includes images. If they're stupid enough not to have video cameras in every public area of the spaceship, then the crew can do police artist sketches of what they look like. Then face recognition could recognize the aliens later (the Ferengi are pretty distinctive and we should assume Starfleet facial recognition tech is pretty damn good).

Starfleet had heard of them. That's why in the case of the Ferengi, they knew their name, ship design and societal outline. What they din't have was a face to go with that name and information. They also had pictures of a species that had no known name,( one of many no doubt) with big ears, snaggly teeth and funky skulls. Facial recognition only works when the name and image have a prior link. Once the look of the Ferengi was confirmed then it would linked in the database to the information about the Ferengi. It would also be useless when encountering a species for the very first time, as there would be no pictures or name to associate with the species.

 

[horatio83]

It's one of thousands species the Earth Federation met in the 22nd century. And now this information is supposed to have survived the transition to the Federation plus two centuries? And even if it did it probably lingered somewhere in the depths of the database.

And even if all the information survived perfectly, it doesn't conflict with anything from Last Outpost. Data doesn't really describe them as friendly guys.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Face recognition technique? This is Trek, not some Orwellian nightmare.

Enterprise isn't a public space. It's a starship. Its basically a mobile secure facility.

There's going to be onboard security, and other recording systems, like onboard flight recorders. One only needs to look at the Space Shuttle, various types of aircraft, and wet navy ships to understand how much shipboard activity is going to be recorded. Its helpful to know where the bad guys are and who they are if your ship is invaded, and your crew is getting lasered in the face.