Worst examples of jobbing?

[Christopher]

Anyway, it's not nearly as silly as some hairy Canadian with hard bones and some knives beating a cosmic menace like Lobo. You might as well have Wolverine defeat Thor, or Gladiator (and yet, somehow, I'm actually pretty sure that happened too).

Well, given that Lobo only exists to serve as a grotesquely exaggerated parody of Wolverine and similar characters, I can't blame them for letting Logan get some payback. I mean, Lobo is a joke rather than a realistic character, or at least that was the original intent, so I'd expect Rule of Funny to outweigh realistic considerations of relative power levels.

 

[SG-17]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y8WqbrhAs4[/yt]

 

[StarTrek1701]

For all his powers it seems Superman is a class-A jobber. He has his beloved father's Kryptonian tech at his disposal, has high situated friends in the superhero and alien communities, can scan the Earth from one side of the surface to another. Yet it never occurs to him to search and clean up every last molecule of kryptonite from Earth?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I dunno, that seems like instant defeat for Namor. Aquaman controls sea life. Namor is sea life. Aquaman can order Namor to walk repeatedly into a wall or the undersea equivalent thereof.

Even taking away the telepathy, Aquaman always seemed to me a rough equal for Namor, except Namor has the advantage of goofy flight, and is probably a better, dirtier fighter, but modern Aquaman is pretty mean, too. I'd really only give Namor a slight edge in a fair fight.

Anyway, it's not nearly as silly as some hairy Canadian with hard bones and some knives beating a cosmic menace like Lobo. You might as well have Wolverine defeat Thor, or Gladiator (and yet, somehow, I'm actually pretty sure that happened too).

He won by dropping a whale on Namor. And it wasn't even a big whale!

 

[Bonzo the Fifth]

For all his powers it seems Superman is a class-A jobber. He has his beloved father's Kryptonian tech at his disposal, has high situated friends in the superhero and alien communities, can scan the Earth from one side of the surface to another. Yet it never occurs to him to search and clean up every last molecule of kryptonite from Earth?

No kidding... This was even worse in the Silver Age when he had all the powers of a physical god and then some....

 

[Bonzo the Fifth]

Anyway, it's not nearly as silly as some hairy Canadian with hard bones and some knives beating a cosmic menace like Lobo. You might as well have Wolverine defeat Thor, or Gladiator (and yet, somehow, I'm actually pretty sure that happened too).

Well, given that Lobo only exists to serve as a grotesquely exaggerated parody of Wolverine and similar characters, I can't blame them for letting Logan get some payback. I mean, Lobo is a joke rather than a realistic character, or at least that was the original intent, so I'd expect Rule of Funny to outweigh realistic considerations of relative power levels.

It's certainly a legitimate POV to have, the Wolverine/Lobo fight, however, is considered an egregious example of this for a couple of reasons for the purposes of this thread.

1) It was a write-in vote. As has been commented on by a couple of others, there are a few other ridiculous examples put up regarding some of the other match ups in that particular series (Aquaman/Namor being one such. Superman/Hulk was another I see debated to this day). Some of the fights were so poorly choreographed that it's obvious even the writers didn't know how to deal with them... which leads to ...

2) The Lobo/Wolverine fight is reviled even more for the fact that the writers didn't even TRY to justify it. For those who haven't read this series, the entire fight goes like this...

-Lobo sitting in space bar, Wolvie walks in. Both exchange pleasantries
-The two fall behind a bar, where they fight OFF PANEL
-Wolverine gets up, spits a one liner and walks out.

Thats. It.

When the writers don't even bother to justify it with so much a handwave, you know it was a bad call.

 

[MLJames]

What makes the fight even more ludicrous was that this was during the period after Magneto had stripped the adamantium out of Wolvie's body. Lobo should have turned him into a greasy spot on the floor in nothing flat. (I had almost as many qualms with Storm beating Wonder Woman.)

 

[JonnyQuest037]

1) It was a write-in vote. As has been commented on by a couple of others, there are a few other ridiculous examples put up regarding some of the other match ups in that particular series (Aquaman/Namor being one such. Superman/Hulk was another I see debated to this day). Some of the fights were so poorly choreographed that it's obvious even the writers didn't know how to deal with them... which leads to ...

2) The Lobo/Wolverine fight is reviled even more for the fact that the writers didn't even TRY to justify it. For those who haven't read this series, the entire fight goes like this...

-Lobo sitting in space bar, Wolvie walks in. Both exchange pleasantries
-The two fall behind a bar, where they fight OFF PANEL
-Wolverine gets up, spits a one liner and walks out.

Thats. It.

As I recall, Wolverine didn't say anything, just took a puff of his cigar. But otherwise, yeah, that was it. I remember voting for Wolverine in that, mainly because I found Lobo so damn obnoxious that I didn't really care about story logic there.

Aquaman I can see potentially beating Namor. Namor is most likely stronger, but I think Aquaman's greater intelligence and control of sea life would help give him the edge.

Didn't Storm also beat Wonder Woman in that series? That seems a bit unbeliveable to me.

 

[Myasishchev]

He won by dropping a whale on Namor. And it wasn't even a big whale!

Well, that's lame.

I'd have given them credit for just mind-controlling him in a two-panel fight.

Anyway, it's not nearly as silly as some hairy Canadian with hard bones and some knives beating a cosmic menace like Lobo. You might as well have Wolverine defeat Thor, or Gladiator (and yet, somehow, I'm actually pretty sure that happened too).

Well, given that Lobo only exists to serve as a grotesquely exaggerated parody of Wolverine and similar characters, I can't blame them for letting Logan get some payback. I mean, Lobo is a joke rather than a realistic character, or at least that was the original intent, so I'd expect Rule of Funny to outweigh realistic considerations of relative power levels.

Fair enough.

(I had almost as many qualms with Storm beating Wonder Woman.)

Didn't Storm also beat Wonder Woman in that series? That seems a bit unbeliveable to me.

I could see that. If Wonder Woman ever actually got her hands on her, Storm would be dead. But Storm could probably kill you without you even knowing you were under attack.

I guess it really depends on how resistant WW is to lightning. I've never been entirely clear on her level of invulnerability. On one hand, she isn't bulletproof, at least not thoroughly. On the other, she can take a punch from Superman (badly, true, but she can stand up afterward). Frankly, these two facts don't really mesh.

 

[Admiral_Young]

There was a "Superman/Batman" story arc a couple years ago that dealt with the two characters trying to rid Earth of Kryptonite. It's been done before, trouble is writers keep bringing back the mineral because everyone knows it is harmful to Superman. As long a Kryptonite remains an easy writing tool to use for a writer's plot it will always exist no matter what happens.

Also regarding Superman's Krypontian tech...I'm not sure what StarTrek1701 is referring to. Clark barely uses any of the Fortress technology to aid him in his crime fighting. If anything that tech has been provided to the JLA for their various headquarters.

Regarding Lobo/Wolverine...I'm late to the discussion again...is this to do with the DC/Marvel crossover? If it is then blame the fans for how all of those fights turned out because they had a vote. Guess what? The popular characters won...so those fight results were what we got. Unless you're not talking about the crossover...if that is the case never mind me

 

[Captaindemotion]

Regarding Lobo/Wolverine...I'm late to the discussion again...is this to do with the DC/Marvel crossover? If it is then blame the fans for how all of those fights turned out because they had a vote. Guess what? The popular characters won...so those fight results were what we got. Unless you're not talking about the crossover...if that is the case never mind me

Yeah, it was the crossover where fans voted for it. This was mentioned a few posts ago. You're lucky Admiral Young didn't see your post, he hates it when people ask questions that have already been answered in the thread.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Touche my friend. Yeah I know I should have gone back and looked LOL.

 

[JoeZhang]

Talking of wolverine, something has always bugged me about the character - his metal laced frame. Think about punching a piece of steel as hard as you can, you'd break your hand, yet they often show normal human characters slugging it out with him with no ill-effects. Equally, Wolverine pushing someone in the face would be the same as getting hit with a brass-knuckle.

 

[DarKush]

For all his powers it seems Superman is a class-A jobber. He has his beloved father's Kryptonian tech at his disposal, has high situated friends in the superhero and alien communities, can scan the Earth from one side of the surface to another. Yet it never occurs to him to search and clean up every last molecule of kryptonite from Earth?

Good question, but this is one that DC finally addressed, or attempted to in Superman/Batman: The Search for Kryptonite.

http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Batman-Kryptonite-Michael-Green/dp/1401219330

 

[Deckerd]

I think the Dementors from Harry Potter would qualify for this. In their first appearance, one is enough to incapacitate you; by Deathly Hollows, you can get away from dozens on an elevator.

I thought the heroes' powers grew as the story progressed? Something they couldn't do as novices would be relatively easy when they were older.

 

[Christopher]

2) The Lobo/Wolverine fight is reviled even more for the fact that the writers didn't even TRY to justify it. For those who haven't read this series, the entire fight goes like this...

-Lobo sitting in space bar, Wolvie walks in. Both exchange pleasantries
-The two fall behind a bar, where they fight OFF PANEL
-Wolverine gets up, spits a one liner and walks out.

Thats. It.

When the writers don't even bother to justify it with so much a handwave, you know it was a bad call.

Or you know that they were treating it as a joke. Lobo is a parody character to begin with, one without a trace of plausibility, and the very idea of characters from two separate fictional franchises interacting is merely an "imaginary story" sort of thing anyway. I'd imagine that handling it that way was deliberately poking fun at the very absurdity of "If character A fought character B" stories and the artificiality of the situation. It sounds like a rather clever way of deflating the expectations of those fans who take things like this too seriously.

I mean, really, when are these "crossover fights" ever handled in a "realistic" way? They're always determined based on fan preference, in that they usually come out to a draw so that fans of neither character will be offended. They're always contrived and artificial, a fairly superficial way of indulging a fannish wish-fulfillment impulse, and rarely carry any real weight. So the whole concept strikes me as being ripe for mockery, and having the characters fight off-panel with the victory not being justified is simply a comedic way of pointing out how arbitrary and silly the whole thing is to begin with. If fans were upset by it, it seems to me they failed to get the joke.

 

[FordSVT]

Here's a more tricky one - At the start of JMS's Thor run (pattern emerging here) - he takes down Iron man with easy, saying something like "you are just a man in an iron suit, I'm a god and in this time and place, I'm not holding back" - is that an example of Iron man jobbing or not?

Even on his best day, I doubt that Iron Man could defeat Thor, who as he pointed out is a god. The idea that Thor holds back when slumming with mere mortals like the Avengers goes back to Steve Englehart's Avengers run in the 1970s.

Also since this was in Thor's own book, he had home field advantage.

Same for Superman. Supes holds back because he is moral and doesn't want to accidentally kill someone by looking at them funny.

 

[Myasishchev]

Talking of wolverine, something has always bugged me about the character - his metal laced frame. Think about punching a piece of steel as hard as you can, you'd break your hand, yet they often show normal human characters slugging it out with him with no ill-effects. Equally, Wolverine pushing someone in the face would be the same as getting hit with a brass-knuckle.

He also doesn't seem to be appreciably heavier than any average joe, even though he probably ought to weigh about 400 pounds.

Unless "adamantium" is "adamantine," and his bones are just diamond nanorod or something.

For all his powers it seems Superman is a class-A jobber. He has his beloved father's Kryptonian tech at his disposal, has high situated friends in the superhero and alien communities, can scan the Earth from one side of the surface to another. Yet it never occurs to him to search and clean up every last molecule of kryptonite from Earth?

Meh, this is the same guy who can be defeated by red light. (Luckily Superman never saves people from fires OH WAIT.) Superman's greatest vulnerability is bad writing.

 

[the G-man]

2) The Lobo/Wolverine fight is reviled even more for the fact that the writers didn't even TRY to justify it... it was a bad call.

Or you know that they were treating it as a joke... I'd imagine that handling it that way was deliberately poking fun at the very absurdity of "If character A fought character B" stories ...

I mean, really, when are these "crossover fights" ever handled in a "realistic" way? They're always determined based on fan preference,...

Yes. More so in this case, since DC and Marvel had set up a poll (because that worked so well for Jason Todd [rolls eyes]) and let fans vote on who would win certain of the fights in the series, including this one.

Wolverine beating Lobo and Storm defeating WW were the two that made no sense whatsoever and simply reflected which characters are more popular with the fans (the same thing could arguably also be said about the Batman/Cap fight, but they're so closely matched that having Bats win [and in part by luck], wasn't particularly offensive).

 

[FordSVT]

Talking of wolverine, something has always bugged me about the character - his metal laced frame. Think about punching a piece of steel as hard as you can, you'd break your hand, yet they often show normal human characters slugging it out with him with no ill-effects. Equally, Wolverine pushing someone in the face would be the same as getting hit with a brass-knuckle.

He also doesn't seem to be appreciably heavier than any average joe, even though he probably ought to weigh about 400 pounds.

There are some extremely strong, low density metals, titanium for example. I doubt adamantium has the same density as steel.

I also don't know what comics you're reading, but Wolverine makes mince-meat out of "normal" humans. It is like they're getting punched in the face by a set of brass knuckles, or hitting a steel door. Also, there is some flesh and muscle between the metal and skin, so punching him in the gut for example isn't going to result in a broken hand. And from the movies, the very first time we see Wolverine he's fighting in a cage, and a guy hits him and you can hear the "ping" and Logan just kind of shrugs and proceeds to devastate him with two blows.