Worst examples of jobbing?

[Mr. Adventure]

Why is it called "jobbing?"

It comes from wrestling and so when one loses a match they're basically just doing their job. Usually a "jobber" refers to a wrestler who frequently loses matches to put over the bigger stars. And sometimes as the case here even a top-level guy is sometimes called to do a job to put over some other wrestler or storyline.

 

[Defcon]

Why is it called "jobbing?"

Joe explains "jobbing" in his original post. It's a pro wrestling term.

To be more specific: In pro wrestling the "jobbers" are guys who are only in the company to lose against the higher tier guys in the company to elevate them in the eyes of the spectators. When they lose they are doing the(ir) job, hence the terms "jobbers" and "jobbing".

 

[the G-man]

Of course, had I known it was merely the beginning of the Morrison-created "with enough prep time uber-Bat can defeat anyone" cliche I might have felt differently.

That predates Morrison by decades. A running gag in the Adam West series was that Batman always, always had insanely plot-specific gadgets ready in his utility belt, often accompanied by lectures on the importance of being prepared for anything -- whether it was an Empty Alphabet Soup Bat-Container and Batfunnel or a supply of live fish in case he needed to reward a helpful seal.

Not the same thing.

The Adam West Batman would get captured and beat up all the time, and all by villains were weren't super-powered.

Yes, as a spoof, they would often have Batman pull just the right thing out of his utility belt. But, again, that was a spoof. And, many times, Batman would escape by pure luck ("gosh, Batman, the nobility of the almost human porpoise...").

Largely, it was the same way in the comics pre-Morrison. Batman very rarely fought anyone meta human (at least in his own book). His villains often gave as good as they got and it took Batman's wits to escape and/or win. In fact, most of the action in the pre-Morrison Bat-books was the result of Bruce getting into a situation he hadn't prepared for and having to figure out a way to escape.

 

[the G-man]

[As far as "Batman beats the Martians" thing ...]
Yeah, but look at how the scene is staged. Batman has already defeated A-Mortal. Fine, he caught A-Mortal with his pants down, but that which should put every remaining Martian on the highest of guards, because they know 1)he's a great detective and 2)their own intense vulnerability to fire.

Instead, they permit him to spout tough guy lines and explain how he deduced their Martian origin (something he's done which they should have already figured out, since it's the most obvious way he defeated A-Mortal). Then they permit him to light a match. One of them is even arrogant enough to say "That little flame can't hurt us."

However, in the time she said that, any one of the three Martians surrounding Batman could have rushed him, and torn him to pieces. Or stayed still, and Martian-visioned him to pieces. Or used their telepathy to tear his mind to pieces. Instead, they allow him to flick the match into a ring of gasoline (I won't get into how being inside a ring of gasoline is not a healthy place for a human to be either).

But! Let's concede them the arrogance. Any one of the three could have caught the match before it reached the gasoline.

But! Let's concede they were afraid for a moment, and didn't act.

They had been, a few pages previously, shown to be able to almost keep pace with Wally West. They can still outrun the chemical reaction of the gasoline before it reaches a level to produce large, disabling flames. They're watching a small fire fall, and then gasoline oxidize, for a subjective hour, yet do nothing.

This is why Flash/Superman-level superspeed is sort of a broken power. At least, it's very difficult to plausibly write about, unless you give everyone else the same ability.

Yes, technically all of that could have happened. However:

1. It is, and was, canonical that Martians, for whatever reason, can't "outrun" a flame. I know it makes no sense but its just the way it is. You can't blame this one scene for that.
2. It's almost as canonical for villains, both in comic books and James Bond movies, to stand around and explain their plans instead of just killing the hero. Again, you can't blame this one scene for doing that.

Also, as I said above, I kind of liked seeing it in that one case. I thought it worked within standard comic book tropes and, but for Morrison (and others) going on to run the concept of uber-Bat into the ground, it was a fun way to establish Batman as someone worth having in a modern JLA.

 

[Myasishchev]

Oh, I liked it too, I'm just sayin'.

 

[JoeZhang]

Here's a more tricky one - At the start of JMS's Thor run (pattern emerging here) - he takes down Iron man with easy, saying something like "you are just a man in an iron suit, I'm a god and in this time and place, I'm not holding back" - is that an example of Iron man jobbing or not?

 

[Kegg]

Just about any story where human characters beat Lovecraftian elder ones can probably count as this.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I don't remember. Was Tony wearing his suit? Also wasn't he feeling kind of guilty about things stemming from the Civil War during that fight? I'd call it a job.

 

[Thestral]

A example of em.. "anti-jobbing" I saw and liked was in JMS's last Spider-Man story - Spider-Man takes on the Kingpin and just beats the shit out of him - telling him, "at the end of the day, you are only Human and I'm not".

On the other hand, Kingpin has consistently been show to be almost superhuman in terms of strength and ability to take punishment; not Blob level, but as near as possible for a human, and a master of many forms of martial arts. Fisk going toe to toe with Spidey isn't Spidey jobbing, it's consistent for the character.

 

[JoeZhang]

A example of em.. "anti-jobbing" I saw and liked was in JMS's last Spider-Man story - Spider-Man takes on the Kingpin and just beats the shit out of him - telling him, "at the end of the day, you are only Human and I'm not".

On the other hand, Kingpin has consistently been show to be almost superhuman in terms of strength and ability to take punishment; not Blob level, but as near as possible for a human, and a master of many forms of martial arts. Fisk going toe to toe with Spidey isn't Spidey jobbing, it's consistent for the character.

He doesn't go toe to toe in the story - Spider-Man just beats the shit out of him without effort - which is why I think that it's anti-jobbing (for both characters) in that even if the KIngpin was peak human that pales next to Spider-man who can throw cars without effort and is super-human.

 

[Thestral]

Sorry, I understood what you were saying, just disagreeing with what I assumed you were saying with Spidey jobbing to Fisk in the past. Do you have the same complaints about Captain America?

 

[FreezeC77]

How about almost every "uber-vamp" who got killed in the Buffy finale? The first one she fought nearly killed her... Then they show up in the finale and you see Dawn and Xander killing them.

 

[the G-man]

Oh, I liked it too, I'm just sayin'.

Fair enough. That's the beauty of a good superhero comic book. You look past the silly stuff. The problem is when it turns into an annoying cliche (Hi, Morrie!).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Here's a more tricky one - At the start of JMS's Thor run (pattern emerging here) - he takes down Iron man with easy, saying something like "you are just a man in an iron suit, I'm a god and in this time and place, I'm not holding back" - is that an example of Iron man jobbing or not?

Even on his best day, I doubt that Iron Man could defeat Thor, who as he pointed out is a god. The idea that Thor holds back when slumming with mere mortals like the Avengers goes back to Steve Englehart's Avengers run in the 1970s.

Also since this was in Thor's own book, he had home field advantage.

 

[Set Harth]

That's kind of unfair, that the Avengers have a god.

 

[Christopher]

How about almost every "uber-vamp" who got killed in the Buffy finale? The first one she fought nearly killed her... Then they show up in the finale and you see Dawn and Xander killing them.

Which is a pervasive problem even with normal Buffyverse vamps. Normal humans without Slayer strength shouldn't be able to drive a wooden stake through a vampire's rib cage with just raw muscle power, but we routinely saw Buffy's non-superstrong allies doing it all the time.

 

[Myasishchev]

I think a sort of strained example is man vs. machine. For those stories to work as intended, man always has to take a dive, at least initially, by permitting a creature whose capabilities are all the result of precise design the means to actually hurt anybody.

See Computo vs. the LSH, M-5 vs. Starfleet, HAL 9000 vs. corpsicles, and, of course, the legendary cock-up that was Skynet vs. all humans. All of these tragedies could have been easily avoided by not giving the emerging intelligence access to the ability to kill.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's kind of unfair, that the Avengers have a god.

I'm sure Kang thought the same thing just before Thor used his godly power to disperse him throughout etenity.

 

[Skellington]

That's kind of unfair, that the Avengers have a god.

God, superhero, same thing.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Here's a more tricky one - At the start of JMS's Thor run (pattern emerging here) - he takes down Iron man with easy, saying something like "you are just a man in an iron suit, I'm a god and in this time and place, I'm not holding back" - is that an example of Iron man jobbing or not?

No. Thor at that time had the Odinforce.