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Worldbuilding in Season 1

And worse than that, Kirk says he was there before, although he didn't have much of a chance to look around. How Ardana got into the Federation remains a bit of a mystery.

I prefer going with Procyon as the location for Andoria, as ENT and the later series decided to do. It's a relatively prominent star, it's close, it was mentioned in the Spaceflight Chronology, and I like the idea of a star that many people know featuring in our sci-fi - like Canopus serving as Arrakis's star in Dune.

I disapparove of using stars with well known names as sites for habitable planets in science ficition, for various reasons. You can find some of those reasons mentioned in Stephen H. Dole, Habitable Planets for Man, 1964.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/commercial_books/2007/RAND_CB179-1.pdf
 
And worse than that, Kirk says he was there before, although he didn't have much of a chance to look around. How Ardana got into the Federation remains a bit of a mystery.

I always figured it was because the Federation had an urgent need for its mined resources, so they fast-tracked its membership before the Klingons or somebody could get the planet.


I prefer going with Procyon as the location for Andoria, as ENT and the later series decided to do. It's a relatively prominent star, it's close, it was mentioned in the Spaceflight Chronology,

Procyon isn't a great choice, for several reasons. It's closer to Earth than Vulcan is, which makes it implausible that humans never encountered Andorians before 2151. And it's not a good candidate for a habitable planet, due to its young age and the presence of a white dwarf in the system that might disrupt any habitable-zone orbit. http://www.solstation.com/stars/procyon2.htm

I think the reason Mandel changed it from Epsilon Indi to Procyon was because Earth is between 40 Eridani and Eps Indi, so we would've been in the middle of the Vulcan-Andorian conflict then. Also, "And the Children Shall Lead" established Eps Indi as Triacus, which FJ seems to have overlooked.


and I like the idea of a star that many people know featuring in our sci-fi - like Canopus serving as Arrakis's star in Dune.

That's usually a pretty terrible idea, though. Most of the stars that are well-known enough to have familiar names are big, bright stars that would have very short lifespans and be incapable of supporting habitable planets. Rigel, Antares, Deneb, all the usual suspects are supergiants far too young and hot to be plausible candidates. Canopus is an A9 giant star only about 25 million years old, probably too young even to have fully formed planets.
 
TOS also suggests we made it out there on our own. Thats why I have long disliked and rejected the FC and ENT assertions of a devastated Earth with the Vulcans nursemaiding use into the galaxy.
This is a sticking point for me: while watching Space Seed, it is apparent that space travel in the 1990s is far more advanced than space travel in the 1960s; the DY-100 is presumably being used for interstellar travel, but sleeper ships are implied to be outmoded by 2018.

How big of a distance are sleeper ships travelling? Presumably they're going to star systems lightyears away, but not too distant; maybe only in a 15-20 LY bubble around Earth or so, though the SS Botany Bay is probably much further away. This brings me to my next issue:

This developed in two stages. Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's Star Fleet Technical Manual established the founding nations of the UFP as the United Nations of Earth, the Planetary Confederation of 40 Eridani, the Star Empire of Epsilon "Indii" (typo for Indi), the United Planets of 61 Cygni, and the Alpha Centauri Concordium of Planets. These were all implicitly multi-world political bodies that merged into a larger one, and from their iconography in the book, it seems clear that the author intended them all to be human-founded nations except for 40 Eri, the only one whose flag and seal didn't have Earthly writing or imagery (implicitly following Blish's precedent).
All of these stars exist within a radius of 20 LY from Earth. Now the Vulcans do have a Prime Directive precursor per ENT, but do the Andorians and Tellarites have the same kind of rule? Also: all of these species have multistellar bodies, so are they crowding each other's territories? How will Earthlings have anywhere to settle when even Andorians have a 100 year jumpstart on warp speed compared to them?

As for that weird line about Vulcan being conquered, I suspect it's a relic from the glory days of westerns, when Trek first aired. In very broad terms, Spock can seen as Tonto: the faithful native sidekick. So maybe the screenwriter automatically assumed that human pioneers had "conquered" the Final Frontier, including Vulcan? Just a theory.
I would agree that it's just a throwaway line with no connection to anything else but the era the series was made in, but what about Kirk's comment about the Vulcanian Expedition? Was Kirk a participant or even a combatant in the conquest of Vulcan? If not, then what kind of expedition is going on? Has this one ever been explained?

It's occurred to me that "Balance of Terror" implies that Earth may have been the aggressor in the Earth-Romulan War. After all, if the Romulans only had "simple impulse" and not warp drive (as "Balance" claimed and later productions have retconned away), they could hardly have left their home system to conquer others within a reasonable amount of time. So humans must have come to them. Also, despite what the onscreen map depicted, the dialogue asserts that the Neutral Zone surrounds only the twin planets Romulus and Remus, so it's implicitly just a single star system that's interdicted from the rest of the galaxy.
I don't know if I buy the idea that the Romulans always lacked warp drive, I think it was just that one ship either had to divert all power from warp to the cloaking device or there was something else going on. If Earth was the aggressor against the Romulans, then why did they never conquer Romulus? After all, they conquered Vulcan :biggrin:
 
This is a sticking point for me: while watching Space Seed, it is apparent that space travel in the 1990s is far more advanced than space travel in the 1960s; the DY-100 is presumably being used for interstellar travel, but sleeper ships are implied to be outmoded by 2018.

How big of a distance are sleeper ships travelling? Presumably they're going to star systems lightyears away, but not too distant; maybe only in a 15-20 LY bubble around Earth or so, though the SS Botany Bay is probably much further away.

I could see sleeper ships being used for interplanetary travel within Sol System. With current methods, it might take 7-9 months to reach Mars, maybe even more than a year depending on the orbital positions. A longer mission like Shaun Geoffrey Christopher's Saturn probe could take years. Hibernation technology might be necessary to allow humans to make such long journeys.

Of course, that's inconsistent with the Botany Bay being far enough away to be somewhere in the vicinity of Alpha Ceti (incorrectly called Ceti Alpha) 270 years after launch. Since it's 250 light years away, the BB would've had to be traveling close to the speed of light.


All of these stars exist within a radius of 20 LY from Earth. Now the Vulcans do have a Prime Directive precursor per ENT, but do the Andorians and Tellarites have the same kind of rule? Also: all of these species have multistellar bodies, so are they crowding each other's territories?

Well, obviously FJ's speculations exist only in the SFTM and aren't binding on any other version of Trek backstory. Later creators just cherrypicked bits and pieces of the fan lore. FJ's implication that these were multi-system nations that melded into the Federation has always been ignored by later fan works and professional tie-ins, which treated Vulcan, Tellar, and Andor as single-world nations. Although ironically, ENT pretty much established that they all were multi-world powers already, going back to something like the FJ version.


How will Earthlings have anywhere to settle when even Andorians have a 100 year jumpstart on warp speed compared to them?

I think the implication is that the other species aren't as interested in expansion and colonization as humans. They're interested in mining for resources, establishing strategic outposts, etc., but don't have the same drive to spread out and settle, or to explore for the sake of pure exploration. That's implicitly why humanity was able to surpass them as the most prominent Federation species -- they were just more the stay-at-home sorts.


I would agree that it's just a throwaway line with no connection to anything else but the era the series was made in, but what about Kirk's comment about the Vulcanian Expedition? Was Kirk a participant or even a combatant in the conquest of Vulcan? If not, then what kind of expedition is going on? Has this one ever been explained?

That's unclear. On the one hand, I agree that early TOS sometimes seemed to imply that "Vulcanians" were a recent contact, but on the other hand, the second pilot established that one of Spock's "ancestors" married a human, implying right from the start that humans and Spock's species (which wasn't named until "Mudd's Women") had been in contact for generations. So the early concepts are all over the place. I don't think there's any way to reconcile them into a consistent worldview on the producers' part, any more than we can reconcile the 200 years in "Space Seed" and "Tomorrow is Yesterday" from the references in "The Squire of Gothos" that would put TOS in the 28th century or so.

We know that Roddenberry didn't want to pin down a definite time frame for the show, since he knew that science fiction predictions could often be too optimistic or too conservative about how long it would take for progress to occur. So I think there was an intentional effort to avoid presenting a consistent, clear model of the universe's history and keep things deliberately vague and contradictory. Sixties TV prioritized individual installments over cohesive continuity, since the anthology format exemplified by classy shows like Playhouse 90 and Texaco Star Theater was respected above the serial format associated with cheesy soap operas and children's shows, and because the lack of home video or reliable broadcast signals meant that there was no guarantee viewers would be able to see an entire series. So many shows deliberately avoided continuity and prioritized what was needed for each individual story, even if it required direct contradiction of other episodes.


I don't know if I buy the idea that the Romulans always lacked warp drive, I think it was just that one ship either had to divert all power from warp to the cloaking device or there was something else going on.

Obviously "Balance of Terror"'s assertion was contradicted later on, when Enterprise explicitly showed Romulans having warp capability before the war. "Balance" itself is ambiguous about whether the Bird-of-Prey is traveling FTL or not; as I mentioned, the dialogue implies that the Neutral Zone interdicts a single star system, while the onscreen map depicts a "Romulan Star Empire" spanning multiple systems. So there's always been an inconsistency there; evidently writer Paul Schneider and whatever art staffer drew the map were making contradictory assumptions, and the producers and director failed to reconcile them.

This is why it's a mistake to try to approach all this as if it were some consistent whole where every last detail must be treated as inviolable fact. They were making this stuff up as they went along and it's full of contradictions. Even Roddenberry himself is on record as seeing Star Trek as a dramatic recreation of Kirk's logs, subject to error and exaggeration by the dramatists and thus subject to revision in later productions (e.g. giving the Klingons ridges in TMP and asking audiences to accept that they always had them and TOS just got it wrong).
 
Technically speaking aren’t your parents your ancestors? Later we know Spock has some discomfort when acknowledging his human side so at an early stage of getting to know his new crew mates he might refer to his mother as “one of his ancestors.” Not long after in “The Corbomite Maneuver” he actually admits his mother was human after a remark Scotty makes suggests he might already have known Spock’s mother was human.
 
Technically speaking aren’t your parents your ancestors?

Of course you can rationalize it after the fact, but this thread isn't about that; it's about what we can deduce about the creators' probable intentions and views of the Trek universe at the time they created it, something that was very much in flux in the first season. They didn't even name Spock's species until the fourth produced episode. And Harry Mudd recognized Spock as "part-Vulcanian" on sight, implying that full Vulcanians were presumed to look more alien, an idea that was abandoned by the time they made "Balance of Terror" and then "Amok Time."

So there are clearly a lot of shifting assumptions here. Spock went from "probably half Martian" to "one of my ancestors married an Earthwoman" to "my mother was a very fortunate Earthwoman" to "You're part-Vulcanian, aren't you?" and so on. It took a while to settle it down, as with so much else about TOS's worldbuilding.
 
I could see sleeper ships being used for interplanetary travel within Sol System. With current methods, it might take 7-9 months to reach Mars, maybe even more than a year depending on the orbital positions. A longer mission like Shaun Geoffrey Christopher's Saturn probe could take years. Hibernation technology might be necessary to allow humans to make such long journeys.

Of course, that's inconsistent with the Botany Bay being far enough away to be somewhere in the vicinity of Alpha Ceti (incorrectly called Ceti Alpha) 270 years after launch. Since it's 250 light years away, the BB would've had to be traveling close to the speed of light.
Good call on hibernation tech still being relevant within the solar system, I guess I'm thinking too big picture. As for SS Botany Bay, unstable wormholes and spatial anomalies can always be used to explain an out-of-place Earth artifact. Maybe weird accelerations and dilation also explains why Gothos at 900LY is now receiving light from Earth in the 19th century when it should only be receiving light from the 1300s.

I think the implication is that the other species aren't as interested in expansion and colonization as humans. They're interested in mining for resources, establishing strategic outposts, etc., but don't have the same drive to spread out and settle, or to explore for the sake of pure exploration. That's implicitly why humanity was able to surpass them as the most prominent Federation species -- they were just more the stay-at-home sorts.
I think it depends on which of the founding races we're talking about. It is strongly emphasized in ENT that Vulcans don't have a drive for exploration. They're disturbed that Humanity only took a century (and a half?) to rebound after WWIII, when their own recovery from the Time of Awakening took 2000 years; now there's Humans everywhere and not all under the hegemony of United Earth, while the Vulcan High Command is a small multistellar power with embassies everywhere.

I don't know if it's explicitly named the Andorian Empire, but the Andorians have an Imperial Guard and are decently aggressive if not expansionist. I imagine that their planetary membership count could be greater than the Vulcans, but then again they're adapted for cold climate and there might not be as many planets available to support them anyway.

Tellarites we know the least about from ENT. I got the sense that they were an old spacefaring power but weren't strongly centralized. They're arguably the most cosmopolitan of the four races, though, since they're shown actively intermingling with other spacefaring civilizations.

Anyway, I do agree that Humans appear to have the strongest drive among the founding races to go out and explore, perhaps because of their newness to the interstellar scene and perhaps because Earth has nothing left to offer after World War III.
 
Watching early TOS, one gets the distinct impression that Vulcans are still fairly exotic and mysterious to humanity. Spock's Vulcan nature is a frequent source of curiosity and fascination to his crewmates, who often act as though they've never actually met a Vulcan before, while Spock is often called upon to explain various aspects of Vulcan culture and physiology to his companions (and the audience).

Decades later, this doesn't quite gibe with modern portrayals of humans and Vulcans having a long, complicated relationship dating back centuries, but all that world-building was still a generation or two away back in the sixties.

As for that weird line about Vulcan being conquered, I suspect it's a relic from the glory days of westerns, when Trek first aired. In very broad terms, Spock can seen as Tonto: the faithful native sidekick. So maybe the screenwriter automatically assumed that human pioneers had "conquered" the Final Frontier, including Vulcan? Just a theory.

Wouldn't be the only example in Star Trek, though. The Ferengi, Trill and Borg all start out as "new" species about whom is little known (they didn't even know about the Trill symbionts)
And then later shows establish much closer ties with the Federation or a much longer presence in known space. I mean there's Trill Starfleet personnel as far back as the DISC era.
 
Vulcans (and others) could still be around for quite sometime yet remain somewhat exotic to most people. We live in a very connected world today, but people in other countries can still seem somewhat exotic to us if we (or they) never or rarely leave home to interact with others.

If Vulcans were largely reclusive with only few interacting off planet with other races then to many humans they could remain somewhat exotic.
 
As for SS Botany Bay, unstable wormholes and spatial anomalies can always be used to explain an out-of-place Earth artifact.

Ohh, gods, no, let's not drag out that hackneyed trope yet again.


I don't know if it's explicitly named the Andorian Empire, but the Andorians have an Imperial Guard and are decently aggressive if not expansionist. I imagine that their planetary membership count could be greater than the Vulcans, but then again they're adapted for cold climate and there might not be as many planets available to support them anyway.

You can be politically expansionist without being interested in settling other lands. Humanity expanded to find new worlds to live on; Andorians may simply have wanted to secure political control of their neighbors and the space around their home system, and to gain access to the mineral resources of other worlds.


Anyway, I do agree that Humans appear to have the strongest drive among the founding races to go out and explore, perhaps because of their newness to the interstellar scene and perhaps because Earth has nothing left to offer after World War III.

Earth in the ENT era reminds me of Europe in the Industrial Revolution. Europe was a young, hungry, upstart power, poorer and less technologically advanced than the older, settled civilizations of China and the Islamic world. They craved the wealth and resources of the East, so they took advantage of their access to abundant coal reserves and invented new transportation technologies to let them travel faster to distant lands and acquire their material wealth and farmlands, and invented factories to compete with their textile and porcelain industries. It was that need to catch up with more advanced and powerful civilizations that drove Europe's industrialization and colonial expansion, so it rocketed ahead of civilizations that had been more advanced than it for centuries but didn't have such a strong incentive to advance further.


Vulcans (and others) could still be around for quite sometime yet remain somewhat exotic to most people. We live in a very connected world today, but people in other countries can still seem somewhat exotic to us if we (or they) never or rarely leave home to interact with others.

To insular, incurious people with a limited education, maybe, but that doesn't describe anyone in Starfleet. They'd surely be expected to study the member worlds at the Academy, if nothing else. And any decent educational system would teach Federation citizens about their fellow members from childhood. I mean, good grief, I still remember the song I was taught in grade school to memorize the names of the 50 states.
 
I'm actually not too concerned about the scientific ramifications (of which I'm pretty well aware) of Procyon serving as the host star for the Andorians, or Canopus for Arrakis (or for that matter, if memory serves, Sirius for the Visitors in V). First off, perhaps there's something we don't presently know about stellar properties that actually does make it plausible that such stars could support carbon-based life. Or that Rigel, a gorgeous system of four stars, could. Or that Mira, a pulsating variable, could do the same, Berthold rays aside. (I actually always thought it was a nice touch that intriguingly irregular Mira, although only named by its Greek Bayer designation, was the star apparently giving human life some trouble in This Side of Paradise.) Second, it's just fun and interesting to use well-known stars. Sue me, I guess?

Finally, the mention of Epsilon Indi's use for Triacus actually illustrates, in a roundabout way, some of the wonkiness of quibbling with what stars may be suitable to support life based on our current understanding. After all, that system evidently entertained beings that could eventually turn themselves into evil, children-manipulating ghosts with mind control ability. I am (at least at present) aware of no such beings living on the third planet of the Sol system and probably don't need to debate whether Procyon or Canopus could host them either.
 
Honestly, I loved the sketchiness of early first season, when the Enterprise was primarily an Earth vessel from a primarily Earth based organization. When Spock was alien and distant. When Kirk said, in the first part of "The Menagerie" "no alien problems" it felt weird because the contacts with aliens at that point (in airdate order) were limited to two prior episodes. It was still just about early enough for "The Galileo Seven" to be Spock's first command, even though the aforementioned "Menagerie" made that ludicrous (which in that same episode made Kirk and Pike "about" the same age). This was the era of "shouty/abrupt Spock" who cut people dead when defending his point of view ("The Enemy Within" "The Man Trap" and so on).
 
I’ll also say that I’m less trying to call into question the quality or consistency of TOS Season 1’s worldbuilding with itself or other seasons/series, and more trying to get an idea for the world as presented by TOS Season 1 and how it differs in major or minor ways from later continuity.
 
I'm actually not too concerned about the scientific ramifications (of which I'm pretty well aware) of Procyon serving as the host star for the Andorians, or Canopus for Arrakis (or for that matter, if memory serves, Sirius for the Visitors in V). First off, perhaps there's something we don't presently know about stellar properties that actually does make it plausible that such stars could support carbon-based life. Or that Rigel, a gorgeous system of four stars, could.

The problem is that they're just too short-lived. Forget carbon-based life, many of them aren't even old enough to have fully formed planets. And many of them never will be, because they'll go supernova before it can happen.

The only way I've ever been able to reconcile Trek's use of such short-lived stars is to assume ancient terraforming and colonization by advanced species such as Sargon's people. But that just creates the logic question of why the hell they'd terraform planets around such ill-suited stars rather than pick more livable ones. Heck, any sensible super-advanced race would settle around small red dwarfs with a life expectancy of trillions of years.


Or that Mira, a pulsating variable, could do the same, Berthold rays aside. (I actually always thought it was a nice touch that intriguingly irregular Mira, although only named by its Greek Bayer designation, was the star apparently giving human life some trouble in This Side of Paradise.)

Oh, Mira is a terrible candidate in many ways. It's one of the fastest-moving stars known, it’s a dying red giant with a white dwarf companion, it’s pulsating and sloughing off its outer atmosphere, and it’s pretty much the last place you’d find a habitable planet that looked like the Disney Ranch. Berthold Rays would be the least of their problems.


Second, it's just fun and interesting to use well-known stars. Sue me, I guess?

Naturally, opinions and tastes differ on how plausible one wants one's science fiction to be. I just don't see what's interesting about using well-known star names. It seems like the laziest possible route to take, just grabbing the easiest low-hanging fruit rather than actually making an effort.

And it's not like the famous stars need the exposure. I'd like to see the less well-known stars get their share of attention. The Orville is pretty good about that, generally using real, not very well-known named stars like Regor or Situla.


Finally, the mention of Epsilon Indi's use for Triacus actually illustrates, in a roundabout way, some of the wonkiness of quibbling with what stars may be suitable to support life based on our current understanding. After all, that system evidently entertained beings that could eventually turn themselves into evil, children-manipulating ghosts with mind control ability.

I've never agreed with the view that the occasional implausiblity in a fictional universe is a license to indulge in total, unfettered nonsense. I prefer the late Richard Matheson's philosophy: That if you want to earn the audience's willing suspension of disbelief about a fantastic or impossible story element, the way to do that is to make everything else in the story as realistic and believable as you possibly can. It's the writer's job to earn the audience's credulity. We shouldn't take it for granted.

And I should add that this was Gene Roddenberry's philosophy too. He wanted Star Trek to be plausible and grounded, and he was one of the only SFTV creators in his era to actually consult with scientists, engineers, and think tanks to design a plausible future. The fact that he fell short in a number of ways, or made necessary compromises of credibility for the sake of budgetary and production realities, doesn't mean he wasn't trying. He was virtually the only TV producer who did try. I've always felt that the way to honor Roddenberry's intentions for Trek was to strive for better credibiity, as he would have wished, rather than using its shortcomings as an excuse to give up the effort entirely.


I’ll also say that I’m less trying to call into question the quality or consistency of TOS Season 1’s worldbuilding with itself or other seasons/series, and more trying to get an idea for the world as presented by TOS Season 1 and how it differs in major or minor ways from later continuity.

It's not about "calling into question." It's not a value judgment. It's just about understanding the creative process as fully as possible. The creative process is usually messy, so pointing out its messiness is not a criticism. It's just being thorough and true to the facts.

The reason to bring it up here is that "the world as presented by TOS Season 1" was not a consistent world. It was glimpses of several different versions of the world that were tried out and refined, merged, or dropped as the season developed. It was a creation in progress, and we can see it go through that process of trial and error as we watch. It doesn't just differ from later continuity, but from itself. That's the only way I can answer your question, because that's the way it happened.
 
The only way I've ever been able to reconcile Trek's use of such short-lived stars is to assume ancient terraforming and colonization by advanced species such as Sargon's people.
I’ve mentioned this before, but my reasoning is those stars were just given the names of stars visible from Earth since people like to name places after other places. For the most part this works, I think TOS only ever used a proper name and the corresponding Bayer designation on one occasion, in “Who Mourns for Adonais” (but maybe I’ve forgotten others).
 
I’ve mentioned this before, but my reasoning is those stars were just given the names of stars visible from Earth since people like to name places after other places. For the most part this works, I think TOS only ever used a proper name and the corresponding Bayer designation on one occasion, in “Who Mourns for Adonais” (but maybe I’ve forgotten others).

Interesting thought. It's a bit of a reach, but I guess it's less of a reach than mine is.

There actually are several stars with "Rigel" and "Deneb" in their common names, so they could be shorthand usages in Trek. Star Trek Star Charts assumes that the Deneb mentioned in TOS is actually Deneb Kaitos, which is far closer than just plain Deneb, which is presumably the site of Farpoint Station in TNG, the most distant point reached by Federation exploration and thus clearly not the same Deneb as the one Harry Mudd visited a century earlier. (I wonder why early Trek's writers were so obsessed with reusing names like Rigel and Deneb for so many unrelated planets.)
 
I recently completed my first watch through of TOS's first season.

Obligatory invitation to join us watching 2nd Season. :)

We just finished 1st season, too -- when it came out with a 55 year time shift with original commercials and preceded by period fanzine readings. Yesterday, we watched the last summer rerun (technically, 9-7-1967 was a blank slot for NBC, but we broadcast "Enemy Within" since it was never rerun and folks wanted to see it).

Next Thursday, 9-15-1967, we'll be watching "Amok Time". I guarantee you'll never get a chance to watch this episode in this manner anywhere else!

So if I'm understanding this correctly, the (fanon) detail of Vulcan orbiting 40 Eridani preceded the (fanon) detail of Vulcans being Earth's first contact. When did each of these facts begin circulating, and when were each of these facts made canonical?

40 Eridani was first proposed as Vulcan's primary star in James Blish's adaptation of "Tomorrow is Yesterday" in Star Trek 2, published in February 1968.

Earlier than that.

James Blish put Vulcan around 40 Eridani in his adaptation of "Balance of Terror" in Star Trek, the first novelization of Trek stories. It came out in January 1967. It was adopted very quickly by the fans as canon--in the second issue of Vulcanalia (the first Trek fanzine so far as I can tell), it is the answer to two of the crossword puzzle clues (which together ask what star Vulcan orbits). That was in early February 1967.
 
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About a day or less after I made my comments above, real-world astronomers announced new information underscoring our lack of knowledge about what stars can and can't support habitable life.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/07/1121465588/new-planet-super-earth-life-nasa
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ble-super-earth-planets-have-been-discovered/

In this instance, the element of surprise comes from the fact that the stellar radiation is so high, but astronomers nevertheless think that these planets could be habitable.

And yes - before someone jumps in and says so - this isn't Procyon or Canopus (in fact, in an interesting coincidence, the star in question is also in Eridanus from our perspective, just "like Vulcan"). The point is that our concept of habitable life around distant stars is ever-changing. So it's not really so ridiculous to posit that we just might be wrong about what life a star with the properties of some of the better-known, relatively or absolutely brighter, or younger ones can host.

I think TOS only ever used a proper name and the corresponding Bayer designation on one occasion, in “Who Mourns for Adonais” (but maybe I’ve forgotten others).

I think you mean that the Star Trek episode used both the proper name and the Bayer designation in the same episode. If so, I recall that and I think you're right about such references in the original series. I'm no expert on TNG, ENT, or the several newer series, but in Voyager, there's an instance where Janeway (in a flashback scene where she is quizzed on science by a mentor - I believe the episode is "Relativity") refers to Bellatrix both by its proper name and Gamma Orionis. (Regrettably, she also refers to Bellatrix as an Arabic name when it's Latin, and her answer to the pop quiz makes no sense for other reasons, but I digress.) In TNG Wesley mentions Arneb once (in a nice shoutout to a lesser-known star), but I don't think he calls it by its Bayer designation as well.

I've never agreed with the view that the occasional implausiblity in a fictional universe is a license to indulge in total, unfettered nonsense.

I see. But you're making my point, actually. This is about individual tastes, and mine is this. I like the fact that Star Trek used star names likely to be known by people with basic familiarity with the naked-eye Earth sky. It's just fun to look up at Procyon during the Northern Hemisphere's fall/winter/spring and wonder how the Andorians are doing.

And one person's "unfettered nonsense" and "laziness," as you endearingly said elsewhere in your post, is another person's simple enjoyment of entertainment. I just found it interesting that in a discussion of scientifically plausible life on other planets per strict, known principles, you mentioned Epsilon Indi - when its only on-screen reference in Star Trek is as the stellar host to at least one member of a band of ghostly, evil "marauders" who are incorporeal and can control human minds with the aid of suitable hosts. That might lead some to hit the brakes a bit on what is and isn't "unfettered nonsense" about the nature of life on planets orbiting distant stars, but as we both said (effectively), YMMV, I guess. :)
 
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About a day or less after I made my comments above, real-world astronomers announced new information underscoring our lack of knowledge about what stars can and can't support habitable life.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/07/1121465588/new-planet-super-earth-life-nasa
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ble-super-earth-planets-have-been-discovered/

In this instance, the element of surprise comes from the fact that the stellar radiation is so high, but astronomers nevertheless think that these planets could be habitable.

Which is a totally different problem from a star being too young to even have planets yet, at least planets that aren't still molten and subject to constant bombardment.


And yes - before someone jumps in and says so - this isn't Procyon or Canopus (in fact, in an interesting coincidence, the star in question is also in Eridanus from our perspective, just "like Vulcan"). The point is that our concept of habitable life around distant stars is ever-changing. So it's not really so ridiculous to posit that we just might be wrong about what life a star with the properties of some of the better-known, relatively or absolutely brighter, or younger ones can host.

Obviously not, but there are limits. You can't treat knowledge as an all-or-nothing binary. You can't use the uncertainties in what we know as an excuse to throw out everything. The way it works is that you formulate your model of the world based on what you know, and remain open to changing it if and when you get new evidence that requires it. You don't throw out a model before you have a reason to.

Especially if you're a science fiction writer. Our job is to earn the audience's willing suspension of disbelief, which means that if we include implausible or impossible elements, we have to sell them, to make them feel believable to the audience. And the best way to do that is to surround them with as much plausibility as we can, to use implausibility judiciously rather than just making everything unrealistic. You base your conjectures on the best knowledge available at the moment, as much as possible, and only make breaks from that judiciously, to the extent that's necessary for the story, rather than gratuitously or at random.

A good example is Richard Donner's approach in Superman: The Movie. That film's advertising tag line was "You will believe a man can fly," and that was because Donner strove to make the film (at least the portions on Earth) as naturalistic and realistically textured as possible, in order to anchor the fantasy element of a man who could fly and thereby make it feel real to even a skeptical audience. He was doing something impossible, but he did it in a setting that felt like the real world, and that made it easier to buy into.



I like the fact that Star Trek used the names of stars that people with basic familiarity with the naked-eye stars in the constellations seen from Earth would. It's just fun to look up at Procyon and wonder how the Andorians are doing.

Sure, I can get that. But there's a fair number of nearby naked-eye stars that are better candidates for life, even if they aren't as bright and flashy. Trek has used a number of them, like Alpha Centauri, Tau Ceti, Epsilon Indi, and the like.



And one person's "unfettered nonsense" and "laziness" as you endearingly said elsewhere in your post is another person's simple enjoyment of entertainment. I just found it interesting that in a discussion of possible life on other planets, you mentioned Epsilon Indi - when the only on-screen reference to that star in Star Trek is as the host to at least one member of a band of ghostly, evil "marauders" who are incorporeal and can control human minds with the aid of suitable hosts. That might lead some to hit the brakes a bit on what is and isn't "unfettered nonsense" about the nature of life on planets orbiting distant stars, but as we both said (effectively), YMMV.

And by taking my words out of context, you entirely miss my point, which is that the occasional implausibility is not a license to make everything implausible. As I said, Roddenberry wanted Trek to be as plausible as possible, allowing for budgetary, logistical, and artistic reasons for the occasional compromise. That was the creator's goal, and the instances where it fell short of that goal should not be held up as the exemplars of what it should be. Especially not an example from such a piece of crap as "And the Children Shall Lead." I mean, come on. Nobody would hold that up as a model the rest of the franchise should emulate.

There's nothing wrong with franchises that are pure fantasy, like Star Wars or Flash Gordon or whatever. But Star Trek aspired to be plausible. It was practically the only American science fiction TV franchise from the 1960s-90s that I can say that about. That was part of what made it special. Part of the reason it became an enduring success when so many of its contemporaries failed was because you could tell its creators cared enough to try to make it feel like a believable universe you could imagine yourself inhabiting. So it saddens me that so many people today don't appreciate that about it and see Star Trek as no different from all the completely fanciful space operas out there.
 
I think BSG original was a serious attempt at Science Fiction. Not my favourite series.
I also think of Land of the Giants as Science Fiction. Maybe Planet of the Apes.
I'm not sure that I'd categorise Star Wars as Pure Fantasy but I realise you're more an expert in this area than I am.
 
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