• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Worf's relationship: A huge mistake by the writers

See, what I thought the topic was going to be referring to was how mishandled Worf's attitude toward Ezri was. Regardless of the change in hosts, Worf made an honorable oath to Jadzia Dax, the merged being, and it seemed to me that that would not have been negated by the death of just the host, anymore than it would have been negated had she lost an arm. His Klingon honor would have stood, regardless of what Trill customs had to say about the matter.

I'd have loved to see them handle it that way - and instead of Ezri, have them move the Dax symbiote into a male host! It would have been ... interesting ... to see Worf deal with that situation (as well as being in keeping with the Trek tradition of dealing with cultural and political subjects.)
... and what if the there are no Trill hosts that can be contacted in time to save the symbiant, so the doctor starts checking inhabitants of the station for compatibility and discovers that Ferringi can support a Trill symbiant. Who would have been better to receive Dax - Rom, Nog, or Quark? Either way, it would have given us some divine comedy relief.
 
I'd say that the mistake was having Worf attracted to a woman who spent so much time making fun of him, making him feel foolish, etc.. Especially since Worf was always shown as hating that kind of thing.
 
Star Trek has confused the concepts of "species" and "race." This discussion would be quite different if Klingons and humans (Vulcans and humans, etc.) were truly distinct species -- unable to procreate.

The principle is still the same. Worf's children will be biologically less Klingon due to the presence of another form of DNA. Whether it is 1% less or 99% less the offspring will be a diluted form of Klingon. Of course they could be taught to be Klingon, but you can't teach someone to be genetically Klingon. As a proud people, the Klingons have always resisted this. In Voyager, B'Lanna was called a mongrel by the captain of the Klingon ship.
 
Star Trek has confused the concepts of "species" and "race." This discussion would be quite different if Klingons and humans (Vulcans and humans, etc.) were truly distinct species -- unable to procreate.

The principle is still the same. Worf's children will be biologically less Klingon due to the presence of another form of DNA. Whether it is 1% less or 99% less the offspring will be a diluted form of Klingon. Of course they could be taught to be Klingon, but you can't teach someone to be genetically Klingon. As a proud people, the Klingons have always resisted this. In Voyager, B'Lanna was called a mongrel by the captain of the Klingon ship.

I don't see where the "half-Klingon" thing would be dishonorable. As was pointed out above, Jadzia Dax seemed to be more Klingon in spirit than many other Klingons. That's not a mistake by the writers, that shows how much the Klingons value honor about all else. For all the harping on about how Klingon culture can't be diluted, they seem to share blood wine and glorious songs with a LOT of non-Klingons in TNG and DS9.
 
See, what I thought the topic was going to be referring to was how mishandled Worf's attitude toward Ezri was. Regardless of the change in hosts, Worf made an honorable oath to Jadzia Dax, the merged being, and it seemed to me that that would not have been negated by the death of just the host, anymore than it would have been negated had she lost an arm. His Klingon honor would have stood, regardless of what Trill customs had to say about the matter.

I'd have loved to see them handle it that way - and instead of Ezri, have them move the Dax symbiote into a male host! It would have been ... interesting ... to see Worf deal with that situation (as well as being in keeping with the Trek tradition of dealing with cultural and political subjects.)

Any solution that doesn't bring Nicole de Boer to the show must be vetoed.:adore:

Edit: I would have liked them to do something along the lines you've suggested, though.
 
I remember seeing something by the writers that said they would've loved to have the new Dax host be a man, but that they didn't want DS9 to become just "the boys and Major Kira." They couldn't leave Kira to be the only female regular on the staff.
 
Any solution that doesn't bring Nicole de Boer to the show must be vetoed.:adore:
Nicole de Boer could have still shown up as the new science officer, just probably not Trill. (I'd say Andorian - they needed more of those in the Next Gen era, and blue chicks are hot.) The male Trill host that rushed there could have run or been on a trade ship (a crewperson on Yates' ship?) that frequently docked at DS9, anyway, and happened to be near - making the new Dax a recurring character, but recurring often enough to explore the new angle with Worf.

I've always felt like the TNG episode with Beverly and the Trill Ambassador was weak - would she really just let it drop, just because he's a woman now? I guess some people would, but they didn't even act there was a different option.
 
^I don't know. If Odan had been a chick and Dr. Crusher a lesbian, I wouldn't have expected her to pursue Odan's replacement if it turned out to be a dude.

Love is highly tied to sex and attractiveness and I'd say generally most people would not embrace a transgendered version of their mate, and not for any particularly bad reason. The more enlightened could still be close friends, but generally I'd suspect the romantic attachment would be lost between both of them--unless they were bisexual in the first place. Trill are, almost by default and possibly as a result of the inevitable gender-bending of their life cycle. We don't know about Worf, but there's no evidence to support it, and it would've come way out of left field ten years after we met him.

For an episode dealing with gender themes, The Outcast is far superior than The Host imo. It's somewhat criticized, from what I gather, but it's in my top five or so. Again, one can make the case that one was a copout, too, because they had an actress playing the role and Riker going for the old fibrous husk.

A better argument could be made for copping out here, I think, than with The Host, although again I'd point out that doing so otherwise would have to make Riker at least a bit bisexual, when he'd never been written that way before. I'm not by necessity making a case against that, Riker trying to hit anything capable of consent could have been potentially awesome and would not have been far off from the portrayal as it stood.:p

However, if TPTB wanted to deal with the issue in a less sensational manner, instead of exploring human sexuality with aliens-of-the-week and stopping short and apparently disappointing people, they should have had a gay or bi character, built from the frame up as gay or bi. A gay Jake Sisko and Ben treating it as a non-issue would've been a fantastic statement.

Unfortunately, they didn't want to do anything other than a psuedo-lesbian bit with Jadzia, and just like in The Outcast, we know why women were chosen to explore the issue (and not just because the only Trill was portrayed by Terry Ferrel, who had been a woman since at least The Emissary :p). That they didn't do this, or go farther with Jadzia, is easy to blame on society, but Trek's not supposed to be about that, it's supposed to be about what society should be. <_<

As for Ms. de Boer, the Andorian idea's not bad by half. :alienblush: But Ezri brought something to the show that it needed, and I'd have missed her character. I understand the argument that a male character could have served much the same purpose, but--and this is the whole gist of my post--gender isn't interchangeable.
 
Last edited:
^I don't know. If Odan had been a chick and Dr. Crusher a lesbian, I wouldn't have expected her to pursue Odan's replacement if it turned out to be a dude.
No, I get that - I really do. I just didn't like the whole "well, that's that, then" attitude that was taken. A lot of reasonable people I have known who are faced with the idea that someone of the same sex has feelings for them (and that has been more than my fair share, actually, but that's another story - or ten :D) don't just immediately jump to "no". There's a little bit of, "Gee, could I be bi or gay? I mean, I wasn't thinking that way before this, but is that because it isn't there at all, or because I'm not used to it?" in their thinking.

Maybe I'm failing to allow for Crusher just being really unusually aware of herself. Or maybe she's already been through that situation in her earlier years, and knows that just isn't for her. But it would have been nice to have seen even a little bit of uncertainty, even if the conclusion arrived at was still the same.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top