Wonder Woman TV Series Shelved

[Admiral_Young]

I truly believed that when the costume change happened last year from Jim Lee for JMS's run that this was motivated for a live action concept of some kind. A "Wonder Woman" live action project is high up on Geoff Johns "to do list" that he mentioned back at comic con last summer.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Almost finished watching the pilot to the cape.

Nightman showed more cunning and M.A.N.T.I.S. had more charm.

Cancel this shit and give me some bloody Wonder Woman.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

so reviving Wonder Woman for the general public on TV in the movies, is always going to require changes so she fits the modern world, almost making it a pointless excerise.

Then make the show about Wonder Woman not fitting the modern world and trying to find her place. If the character seems dated, don't change it, embrace it and make it work.

That's actually a very interesting concept. I watched the WW animated movie and got frustrated because it felt like it was still ideologically set in the 1970s.

Buit it'd be pretty fun to either:

have the Amazon Ambassador show up ready to educate Patriarch's World (It hasn't been Man's World since the Perez reboot folks!) on female equality and be met at the UN by the female US Secretary of State! Then Diana's character arc could be trying to reconcile her culture's outdated attitudes about the outside world.

Or, instead of the whole Paradise Island has existed in a magical netherworld developing in isolation for 3000 years have the Amazonian homeworld still be in the Bronze Age and Diana pitched 3000 years into the future so that she's truly out of sync and you could play much more with the ancient/ modern issues. Magic could still allow her access to her home, and WW as an ancient warrior in our world might work a lot better than the (now tired) female vs. male superiority schtick.

Bummer the show got shelved, but I must admit I had my doubts about a David E. Kelly take on the whole thing.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Because the outfit is hot.

It's also very difficult to justify a woman fighting crime in her underwear.

This is one of those few justifications.

Like justifying the "underwear" in 300?

 

[Agenda]

WW's origins have always been kind of "out there". Not only do you have an island full of modern day amazons living in the past - which is incredible enough - but you also have magic and greek gods involved.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but I can't blame WB for wanting to take a pass. Maybe some things just work better in comic books and cartoons (and old cheesy tv shows).

 

[Christopher]

I think it would be easy enough to make Wonder Woman's costume more practical while retaining its distinctive look. Here's a Wonder Woman/Xena homage costume worn by Erica Durance in an episode of Smallville, which is very much on the right track. Replace the "star-spangled panties" with a leather skirt suggesting Roman armor (there have been WW costume variants in the comics that have done this), and add shoulder straps to the top, and it becomes more practical and more plausibly pseudo-classical. I'd also suggest going back to the traditional eagle symbol on the chest rather than the modern "WW" and style it as an armor breastplate.

Also, I think there is a way to make Wonder Woman an archetype of femininity without making the story about battling sexism. Even in a world where men and women are equal, that doesn't mean they're identical. I think WW would work well as a sort of archetypal mother figure, stern when she has to be yet always compassionate. I like the fact that in the comics, she's not just a crimefighter but a diplomat, a peacemaker. As Gail Simone has famously said: “When you need to stop an asteroid, you get Superman. When you need to solve a mystery, you call Batman. But when you need to end a war, you get Wonder Woman.” I think the idea of superhero-as-diplomat -- a character who doesn't just punch the immediate threat into submission but then delves into solving its root causes -- is potentially fascinating.

So it wouldn't really be about a feminist confronting Man's World, but about a representative of a sheltered, peaceful civilization trying to cope with the insanity and cruelty in the outside world. At the same time, she represents a wisdom that the rest of us could profoundly benefit from and a naivete that makes it hard for her to figure out how to show us the way.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Perez/Potter (Post Crisis reboot 1985ish) said that their ambassador wore the flag of the country they were visiting as a sign of respect... Now they might have just been making excuses, but think about it, does this mean that "THE Wonder Woman" has a flag themed costume for every country she might visit? or that the flag Costume she wears/wore was always predicated upon the frist country she visited, since Di never did seem to get over wearing the American flag, or she just hated "change" and/or shopping...

Would America have accepted Diana in the 80s if she visited Russia first and her "costume" was red with a hammer and sickle since her ambassadorial duties was all about mostly "fuck me, nukes are scary." that really she should have been spending equal time in America and Russia.

Then of course if it was just as a question of population, she should have gone to China first.

 

[Greg Cox]

WW's origins have always been kind of "out there". Not only do you have an island full of modern day amazons living in the past - which is incredible enough - but you also have magic and greek gods involved.

.

Honestly, I think the audience is more receptive to "out there" material than some people think. Look at the some of the big hit franchises out there:

English school kids, attending a boarding school for sorcererers, fight evil wizards and mythological beasts.

Robots from outer space transform themselves into cars and trucks.

Wacky pirates fight curses, ghost pirates, and sea monsters.

Teenage girl in small town is torn between a vampire and a hunky werewolf . . . .

Giant blue-skinned cat people fly around on winged lizards.


I think if audiences can embrace Harry Potter, Transformers, Pirates of the Caribbean, Twilight, and Avatar, they can cope with Amazons and Greek gods . . . .

 

[wamdue]

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I can't embrace Twilight and I won't embrace Transformers.

 

[PsychoPere]

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

How can you possibly make this assumption without any information on what Kelley's show would have done, had it moved forward?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

A question for the guys.

In the Bones halloween episode, where Emily Deschanel dressed up as Wonder Woman, how many times have you jerked off to that?

You don't have to count the first time.

That was primal forces no one could control.

 

[Greg Cox]

I can't embrace Twilight and I won't embrace Transformers.

But tens of millions of people do.

So the idea that WW's backstory is somehow too fantastic for general audiences just doesn't ring true.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

How can you possibly make this assumption without any information on what Kelley's show would have done, had it moved forward?

Do you remember how Billy got just before the brain tumour killed him in Ally McBeal?

THAT'S Steve Trevor.

Kelly creates great extremes to ludicrous degrees and then has them fight, even if they're both mad parodies of a reasonable point of view.

 

[wamdue]

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

A question for the guys.

In the Bones halloween episode, where Emily Deschanel dressed up as Wonder Woman, how many times have you jerked off to that?

You don't have to count the first time.

That was primal forces no one could control.

I dont watch Bones, but im not in the habait of wanking to network TV programs, they are not nearly racey enough.

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

How can you possibly make this assumption without any information on what Kelley's show would have done, had it moved forward?

ok so I dont know what Kelleys take was, but a big part of the Wonder Woman character, her own creation (both in the comic world, and the real world) was about womens liberation, and the idea that men are sexist towards women, such storytelling normally leads to a couple of character types I dont like

1) sexist men, who despite living in the present day bear no relation to the attitudes of real men, and only seek to demonise the male gender further.

2) women who think they can do no wrong, yet constanlyt make mistakes in all areas of there lives, yet never get told they are wrong.

I was no fan of Grey's Anatomy, which also featured some really weak male characters, with no redeemable features, mostly only there to make the hideous weak & flawed female leads look & feel good.

I have no time for such TV shows.

Lets face it to set WonderWoman in the modern day you are going to have to create some pretty unrealistic male characters, and im sure give birth to some stuck up female characrers as welll.

I have no time for a Wonder Woman story set in modern times, because I think the character is dated, and to make it work they are going to need some male characters I would find offensive.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

A question for the guys.

In the Bones halloween episode, where Emily Deschanel dressed up as Wonder Woman, how many times have you jerked off to that?

You don't have to count the first time.

That was primal forces no one could control.

I dont watch Bones, but im not in the habait of wanking to network TV programs, they are not nearly racey enough.

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

How can you possibly make this assumption without any information on what Kelley's show would have done, had it moved forward?

ok so I dont know what Kelleys take was, but a big part of the Wonder Woman character, her own creation (both in the comic world, and the real world) was about womens liberation, and the idea that men are sexist towards women, such storytelling normally leads to a couple of character types I dont like

1) sexist men, who despite living in the present day bear no relation to the attitudes of real men, and only seek to demonise the male gender further.

2) women who think they can do no wrong, yet constanlyt make mistakes in all areas of there lives, yet never get told they are wrong.

I was no fan of Grey's Anatomy, which also featured some really weak male characters, with no redeemable features, mostly only there to make the hideous weak & flawed female leads look & feel good.

I have no time for such TV shows.

Lets face it to set WonderWoman in the modern day you are going to have to create some pretty unrealistic male characters, and im sure give birth to some stuck up female characrers as welll.

I have no time for a Wonder Woman story set in modern times, because I think the character is dated, and to make it work they are going to need some male characters I would find offensive.

Have you ever read a Wonder Woman comic?
Or seen the 1970s show? While goofy, didn't quite the character types you hate.

Also: why does it follow that Wonder Woman, being about Women's Liberation, that those are the only types of characters that would follow?

That's from bad writing not from something a character would be about.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Also, I think there is a way to make Wonder Woman an archetype of femininity without making the story about battling sexism. Even in a world where men and women are equal, that doesn't mean they're identical. I think WW would work well as a sort of archetypal mother figure, stern when she has to be yet always compassionate. I like the fact that in the comics, she's not just a crimefighter but a diplomat, a peacemaker. As Gail Simone has famously said: “When you need to stop an asteroid, you get Superman. When you need to solve a mystery, you call Batman. But when you need to end a war, you get Wonder Woman.” I think the idea of superhero-as-diplomat -- a character who doesn't just punch the immediate threat into submission but then delves into solving its root causes -- is potentially fascinating.

So it wouldn't really be about a feminist confronting Man's World, but about a representative of a sheltered, peaceful civilization trying to cope with the insanity and cruelty in the outside world. At the same time, she represents a wisdom that the rest of us could profoundly benefit from and a naivete that makes it hard for her to figure out how to show us the way.

Good point - and honestly the comics have been going much more this way for a while, though things tend to get confused when they try to write the other Amazons in. A problem with the basic premise as you've written it here is that the Amazons are extremely homogenous, so peace isn't nearly as difficult as it is in a diverse world - but that's something else that could be explored. You also have to watch out for WW ending up mouthing campy platitudes...

Its not so much her back story im worried about, its the attitude the show will take towards its male characters that simply wont ring true, and I would find offensive.

A question for the guys.

In the Bones halloween episode, where Emily Deschanel dressed up as Wonder Woman, how many times have you jerked off to that?

You don't have to count the first time.

That was primal forces no one could control.

Boys are so weird.

 

[Christopher]

How many Wonder Woman comics have you actually read, wamdue? I'll admit my own reading is not comprehensive, but what I have read doesn't match what you're describing. I haven't seen any "demonization" of men in the comics I've read. And I certainly haven't seen it in the various television and film adaptations of the character.

From what I know about William Moulton Marston's original comics, he believed in female superiority, but he didn't think in terms of some kind of bitter war between the sexes; rather, his ideal was one of the sexes coexisting lovingly and peacefully through mutual acceptance of women's greater wisdom and gentleness. Now, naturally most of Marston's successors have not perpetuated his rather kinky dom/sub gender politics, but I think Wonder Woman has historically always been more about promoting peaceful equality and unity of the sexes than the kind of militant man-hating screed you seem to be assuming it is. If anything, Wonder Woman herself is generally portrayed as more accepting of the worth of men than her Amazon sisters are.

And it's not like feminism is the only thing the comics are about. Wonder Woman is a superhero, battling supervillains of both sexes -- in fact, many of her primary nemeses are fellow women, such as Cheetah and Circe. There have been times in the history of the comic where any elements of feminism have been completely absent, like in the '50s when WW became mostly about Wonder Woman's romantic entanglements, and in the '60s where she was sharing wacky adventures with younger versions of herself (don't ask). In the post-Crisis era, her stories have been largely about epic mythological conflicts and about Diana's role as an ambassador of her nation and a global celebrity. And there have always been strong, prominent male protagonists in the comics, from Steve Trevor to I Ching to Nemesis.

As for your claim about "women who think they can do no wrong"... one of my favorite WW comics I've read is one by, I think, Phil Jimenez in which Diana reveals that every day, she places her Lasso of Truth around herself and forces herself to confront her flaws. Jimenez portrayed Wonder Woman as someone that others saw as perfect, but who was innately humble in herself. And I think that in the Perez reboot, she was portrayed as an innocent, someone who knew she had a lot to learn and kept an open mind. Maybe some of her fellow Amazons have the kind of arrogance you describe, but that's not one of Diana's own attributes. She is, after all, an embodiment of truth. She can't lie to herself, and she sees things as they are.

 

[Professor Zoom]

You also have to watch out for WW ending up mouthing campy platitudes...

Actually, that might be an interesting journey for her.

She begins sort of naive, and what she says are sorta platitudes... but as the series progresses she gains more knowledge, more confidence, and so, no longer saying mere platitudes, but something wise....

 

[Guy Gardener]

Lassoing herself seems pretty obnoxious to me.

It's mirror mirror territory bordering on those plastic surgery fetishists who keep trying to make additions and refits to be more perfect. Once in a while possibly, but every day?

Sounds like an addiction.

Could it be harmful?

(No need for faith if you have proof. Why rely on faith when theirs proof just around the corner. You can hold off any important decisions because only choices made under the influence of the lasso can be trusted.)

Would it hurt her, would she go into withdraws if she stopped? Psychologically or physically? Try giving up coffee and then think how small that is compared to knowing with perfect clarity for a fact you are righteous?

It's like it gives her a passport to be superior as long as every day she's sure that she is superior and almost perfect in every way.

(Did you ever see Anne Hathaway on Saturday Night Live as Mary Poppins? Supercalifragalisticexpealidicious was a terminal sexually transmitted disease she had passed onto that Chimney Sweep played by Dick VanDyke and a few other colourful characters from the movie.)

But this is exactly what was wrong with Phill's Wonder Woman, the gollum did not have feet of clay.

I liked it when Byrne had Hippolyta take over the job, falling through a timehole into the 1940s, sleeping around with Wildcat while she fought Nazis.