Wonder Woman headed to the small screen

[Guy Gardener]

http://www.google.co.nz/images?hl=e...e=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=800&bih=403

She's pretty, but not Wonder Woman pretty.

Eliza is pretty, and no offence against the actress but I have never seen her play smart. She always plays overwhelmed and sassy, although in Dollhouse she did have the opportunity to be and play everything including the Kitchen sink but... Gosh, she is sure pretty.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Eliza Dushku is a talented actress. Unfortunately, on both Dollhouse & Tru Calling, her character was the least interesting part of the show. (Plus, I think there is some sort of numerological curse on Dushku. She can only play a TV character for a grand totaly of 26 episodes. Her appearances on Dollhouse, Tru Calling, and Buffy/Angel each total exactly 26, even though those are each in different configurations.)

For the unitiated, AMAZON HIGH was a pilot for a proposed XENA spin-off that never got off the ground. Selma Blair was a modern-day teen transported back to the age of Amazons . . . .

That sounds scary...

A female version of Young Hercules...(and, as we know, no one really remembers Young Herc)...

I do. I never watched it but I remember it. I think I still have an old issue of Fox Kids magazine that includes an interview with the cast or something. (I don't really recall for sure. I only kept the issue so I could ogle the cover photo of Princess Dierdre from Mystic Knights of Tir Na Nog.)

I think people are forgetting that, being the WB...

First off, The WB doesn't exist anymore. Smallville currently airs on The CW, a network which is kind of the merger of The WB and UPN.

It's an easy mistake to make. When UPN & the WB "merged," all that really happened was that the WB changed its name, assimilated America's Next Top Model, then chucked the rest. UPN's identity (such as it is) was lost forever, although you can still feel echoes of it on BET, SpikeTV, and even SyFy on a bad day.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Seriously, though, what killed Smallville for me is they futzed around for half a decade darn near before they realized they weren't making a variation of the old Roswell TV series, or 90210.

Except that's basically what they were trying to do. The goal was to make a show that would appeal to the network's general audience, rather than specifically to the smaller, niche audience of comics fans. Avoiding the conventional approach to the mythos and reinventing it as a more domesticated teen drama was exactly the point of doing the show in the first place.

Frankly I think the way the series was done is exactly what would have looked good on paper.

You have an alien crashing in a ship on Earth, and eventually you have to work that into the plot, so there has to be Roswell elements, or we are scratching our heads wondering what was the point of the ship.

You have Clark brought up in an isolated location by parents who are constantly pressing him to keep a low profile to protect his secret, you are going to get a guy inhibited to express his emotions and fumbling around the cheerleader you have a crush on.

You are prohibited from using Superboy due to stupid copyright issues with the creator so you can't introduce the costumed hero while he's boy. You focus on the teen years and it has elements of Buffy and 90210 by default.

Toward the end of the run you introduce more classic superhero elements and storylines because you want to bring the casual tv viewer into the DC universe to increase that audience.

I don't think there was anything illogical about the concept, I think most complaints can be summed up by One step forward, two steps back. It dragged it's feet and frustrated a lot of the audience who were expecting Clark to progress to his destiny a little more quickly and constantly.

There were fantastic characterizations throughout the run, especially Chloe, Lex and Lionel, but also Braniac, Lois has grown into the role and Green Arrow is very good. The show has a lot of good points, it just took too long to get to each milestone.

 

[Christopher]

^That was the old regime, Millar & Gough. Since they left, the show has moved rapidly forward. It's essentially a different show now.

 

[Admiral_Young]

It's a different show and yet they've stubbornly cling to their original premise and motto refusing to really mature the characters who still talk and act like they are in high school instead of the young adults they are. I and many other frustrated fans would argue that it hasn't progressed at all Christopher. They show still makes the same mistakes that it has during it's entire run. I'll concede that the series has progressed to a degree but it still hasn't grown up.

I have faith that David E. Kelly can bring on board more established writers and hopefully the show isn't aired on a network who's primary demographic are teenagers.

 

[saturn5]

Eliza Dushku is a talented actress. Unfortunately, on both Dollhouse & Tru Calling, her character was the least interesting part of the show. (Plus, I think there is some sort of numerological curse on Dushku. She can only play a TV character for a grand totaly of 26 episodes. Her appearances on Dollhouse, Tru Calling, and Buffy/Angel each total exactly 26, even though those are each in different configurations.)

For the unitiated, AMAZON HIGH was a pilot for a proposed XENA spin-off that never got off the ground. Selma Blair was a modern-day teen transported back to the age of Amazons . . . .

That sounds scary...

A female version of Young Hercules...(and, as we know, no one really remembers Young Herc)...

I do. I never watched it but I remember it. I think I still have an old issue of Fox Kids magazine that includes an interview with the cast or something. (I don't really recall for sure. I only kept the issue so I could ogle the cover photo of Princess Dierdre from Mystic Knights of Tir Na Nog.)

I think people are forgetting that, being the WB...

First off, The WB doesn't exist anymore. Smallville currently airs on The CW, a network which is kind of the merger of The WB and UPN.

It's an easy mistake to make. When UPN & the WB "merged," all that really happened was that the WB changed its name, assimilated America's Next Top Model, then chucked the rest. UPN's identity (such as it is) was lost forever, although you can still feel echoes of it on BET, SpikeTV, and even SyFy on a bad day.

Eliza rocks!

Here's a question, how much cheesecake do we want on the show? Should the costume be practical or knockout sexy as Lynda's was? Do we want it like Smallville where Lois goes 'undercover' (not under much) at a strip club or Supergirl turning up and within a few eps is entering a beauty contest and prancing around in high heels and a skimpy bikini?

Also should WW continue her unfortunate habit in the original series of being knocked out/tied up/hypnotised/turned into a living waxwork/enslaved by her own lasso/transformed into a robot double? (the guy who invented her was a bondage fetishist and it kinda shows)

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ This is part of my point. I'm hoping that Kelly avoids that cheese factor to a degree and delivers a more mature take on Wonder Woman, the reason "Smallville" has featured those traits is because it's on a network that focuses on teenagers and young adults. If "Wonder Woman" was on a network like CBS or ABC I think we would see some of that to a degree but not to the extent we would on CW.

 

[JoeZhang]

Olivia Munn....Charisma Carpenter...Eliza Dushku for Wonder Woman definitely,and for Queen H. Claudia Black that could work in a series,but Like Guy said its up to the TPTB namely Kelly or get a unknown for Wonder Woman/Diana Prince.
that's my take on this.
Signed
Buck Rogers

you want Wonder Woman to be played by an actress who is older than the actress playing her mother?

Yes yes they all immortal and all that but I can't see the public buying it.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Why not? Olivia Wilde was just cast as Justin Timberlake's mom in a movie.

 

[JoeZhang]

Why not? Olivia Wilde was just cast as Justin Timberlake's mom in a movie.

Isn't that in a film where every single character is 25 for plot reasons? Anyway it's a pointless discussion as there is no chance of CC being hired for the role.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yes and we're talking about ageless Amazons here. I don't see the difference.

 

[Christopher]

It's a different show and yet they've stubbornly cling to their original premise and motto refusing to really mature the characters who still talk and act like they are in high school instead of the young adults they are. I and many other frustrated fans would argue that it hasn't progressed at all Christopher. They show still makes the same mistakes that it has during it's entire run. I'll concede that the series has progressed to a degree but it still hasn't grown up.

I don't see what the talking has to do with it. I just chalk that up to the show's generally inept approach to "witty" dialogue. The change post-Millar/Gough has been profound. For seven years, Clark's development was arrested; no matter how many people told him he had a destiny and a responsibility to use his powers for the good of the world, he remained stubbornly insular and self-absorbed, unwilling to accept any responsibilities beyond the Kent farm and his limited sphere of relationships. The showrunners were still stuck in their original rut, unwilling to let things move forward. But as soon as they left, the new showrunners started doing everything that should've happened years earlier. Clark took a job at the Daily Planet and began embracing his responsibility as a hero. He went from resisting the invitations of the other superheroes to becoming their active partner and eventual leader. Aside from such superficial matters as the costume and the lack of flight, this is now a Superman show. That's completely different from what Millar & Gough insisted on doing for seven seasons.

Here's a question, how much cheesecake do we want on the show? Should the costume be practical or knockout sexy as Lynda's was? Do we want it like Smallville where Lois goes 'undercover' (not under much) at a strip club or Supergirl turning up and within a few eps is entering a beauty contest and prancing around in high heels and a skimpy bikini?

Certainly not. However, the costume Lois wore in the sci-fi convention episode last year, which was sort of a Xena-Wonder Woman hybrid, struck me as a marvelous idea for an updated Wonder Woman costume.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/1091584-warrior17_super.jpg

I'm also rather fond of the new costume from the comics with the long pants and shoulder straps.

Also should WW continue her unfortunate habit in the original series of being knocked out/tied up/hypnotised/turned into a living waxwork/enslaved by her own lasso/transformed into a robot double? (the guy who invented her was a bondage fetishist and it kinda shows)

That's an oddly anachronistic question. That "habit" hasn't been "continued" for several decades in the comics, or in any prior media adaptation.

I'm hoping that Kelly avoids that cheese factor to a degree and delivers a more mature take on Wonder Woman...

That's exactly what worries me about giving this project to Kelley. Many of his shows have been characterized by very broad, campy humor, and I'm concerned that Kelley was hired because some network executive figured that the way to approach Wonder Woman was to emulate the campy style of the Lynda Carter series. And that would be a mistake. We need an interpretation of Wonder Woman that lets the general public see her as an impressive, respectable heroic figure rather than a walking joke.

 

[Snaploud]

I think people are forgetting that, being the WB...

First off, The WB doesn't exist anymore. Smallville currently airs on The CW, a network which is kind of the merger of The WB and UPN.

It's an easy mistake to make. When UPN & the WB "merged," all that really happened was that the WB changed its name, assimilated America's Next Top Model, then chucked the rest. UPN's identity (such as it is) was lost forever, although you can still feel echoes of it on BET, SpikeTV, and even SyFy on a bad day.

Actually, the CW kept the UPN top executives and fired the WB top executives. That's why the CW's track record for new shows is much worse than the WB's old track record.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Here's a question, how much cheesecake do we want on the show? Should the costume be practical or knockout sexy as Lynda's was?

I think they should use the traditional costume. It's simple and streamlined. All this armor stuff people want looks too loud and bulky. That would look silly. How do you justify the traditional "bathing suit" look? Simple. She's not from our world and so her costume doesn't have to conform to our social norms. As Wonder Woman herself once said... "What's wrong with what I'm wearing?"

And so what if there is that "cheesecake/eye candy" factor. It's a must. Wonder Woman has been described as one of the most beautiful women around. Sexiness and seriousness can go hand in hand. I don't know why so many people think that can't or don't. Confidence is sexy anyway, so if they do things right, that'll come through naturally.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Clark isn't a leader of anything right now. He's still isolated himself and is clouded by self doubt and the weight of the mistakes he continues to make. Miller and Gough were still the show runners when he got the job at the Planet, I want to say that happened in season five. They left two seasons ago now. PSW have actually been pretty faithful to Gough and Miller and haven't changed much. Take a gander at any my Smallville thread or the weekly episode threads and you'll see I'm not the only one who takes the show to task and I'm a big fan

 

[JoeZhang]

Here's a question, how much cheesecake do we want on the show? Should the costume be practical or knockout sexy as Lynda's was?

I think they should use the traditional costume. It's simple and streamlined. All this armor stuff people want looks too loud and bulky. That would look silly. How do you justify the traditional "bathing suit" look? Simple. She's not from our world and so her costume doesn't have to conform to our social norms. As Wonder Woman herself once said... "What's wrong with what I'm wearing?"

And so what if there is that "cheesecake/eye candy" factor. It's a must. Wonder Woman has been described as one of the most beautiful women around. Sexiness and seriousness can go hand in hand. I don't know why so many people think that can't or don't. Confidence is sexy anyway, so if they do things right, that'll come through naturally.

We should adapt the Anti-Comics-Feminist Bingo card for this discussion:

But she’s from an alien culture with no nudity taboo!

http://girl-wonder.org/girlsreadcomics/?p=66

 

[Lapis Exilis]

That's exactly what worries me about giving this project to Kelley. Many of his shows have been characterized by very broad, campy humor, and I'm concerned that Kelley was hired because some network executive figured that the way to approach Wonder Woman was to emulate the campy style of the Lynda Carter series. And that would be a mistake. We need an interpretation of Wonder Woman that lets the general public see her as an impressive, respectable heroic figure rather than a walking joke.

I'm afraid we don't need such an approach as much as the comic book fan fringe would like such an approach. The basic premise of all superheroes is campy - "camp" means to take seriously the very silly. Pure-hearted, heroic people in colorful costumes saving the world is simply a very silly idea. David E. Kelley may be perfect because he can manage to swing from silly fun to genuine dramatic moments and back. Xena and Buffy were campy, with a fun, wink-at-the-camera sensibility (something else Kelley is good at) - Wonder Woman will be, and should be, too.

 

[Christopher]

Clark isn't a leader of anything right now. He's still isolated himself and is clouded by self doubt and the weight of the mistakes he continues to make.

Have you been watching the show lately? There was that great scene toward the end of last season where he had a whole bunch of Justice League and JSA members on screens and was giving them this great pep talk. He had clearly become the leader of the superhero community he had formerly renounced. No, that's not something they can show every week, but that's because budget and logistics preclude them from using the whole League regularly; but we'll be seeing plenty of them in individual appearances over the course of the series, as with Carter Hall this week (and he was clearly acting on Clark's instructions).

And who says having self-doubt is incompatible with being a leader? Heck, James T. Kirk's constant self-doubt and introspection were part of what made him a great leader, because they kept him honest and able to rectify his mistakes.

Miller and Gough were still the show runners when he got the job at the Planet, I want to say that happened in season five.

No, season 5 was when Clark went to college. It was Chloe who got an internship at the Planet in season 5. Lois became an investigative journalist at the Inquisitor in S6 and was hired at the Planet at the start of S7 (actually the second episode, "Kara"). So yes, we often saw Clark at the Planet from S5 onward as he interacted with the characters who did work there. But Clark didn't actually become a Planet reporter until after Lana left Smallville, i.e. the start of S8 ("Odyssey") -- right after Millar & Gough left the show.

PSW have actually been pretty faithful to Gough and Miller and haven't changed much.

If by "PSW" you mean the new showrunners, I think they've changed everything. The early part of S8 in particular felt to me like an aggressive renunciation of the limits M&G had imposed on the show. Clark and other characters frequently criticized his insular behavior in earlier seasons, his former refusal to embrace his heroic destiny. That sounded very much to me like authorial insertion, the new showrunners expressing their frustration at the limits that had been placed on them before and that they were now free to cast aside. To quote the Smallville Wiki's summary of "Odyssey," linked above:

Clark responds saying it is time he stopped holding onto a life on the farm that was gone a long time ago, and begin to accept his destiny.

That was a mission statement for the new showrunners right there, and a turning point in the show's storytelling.

M&G were in such a rut that by the end of season 7, I couldn't even bear to watch anymore. Heck, I would've given it up years earlier if it weren't for my adoration of Kristin Kreuk. But by late S7, it just became so odious and awful that even she couldn't keep me watching. But with S8, the quality of the storytelling improved immensely and it's stayed strong ever since. So with the departure of M&G, it's gone from painfully bad to good and sometimes excellent. I don't know what benchmarks you're using to evaluate it, but from my perspective, it's a profoundly different and much better show.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I watch "Smallville" every week Christopher as you would know if you participated in the weekly discussion threads or the Summer hiatus thread I created and posted over a hundred times in over the summer time. You will find my thoughts on the show in those threads (especially the hiatus thread) and that many others agree with me.

 

[coolghoul]

If they really want to make it teenage angsty *and* campy, only *then* would I want to see Kim Kardashian as wonder woman. Especially running around with a revealing costume.

But for the good of all, I am willing to sacrifice my personal predilections and wish for a more credible approach to this.